UPConductr's 1:1 scale Q & A !

While waiting for some paint to dry on a project, i thought of something to ask! :) Where did you go to take your courses to become a railroader? I'm planning on becoming a railroader once out of grade 12 and i have come across a couple options. One i am seriously considering is a Unitersity in Southern Alberta that offers a Rail Conductors course. After taking it, your garenteed a job somewhere, with a letter of recomendation for your Resume. Would you suggest starting at the bottom and working up, or going for the gusto and taking the Conductor course right away? Also, how long have you been a railroader? AR

Not a problem... actually, a good idea... Q&A away :D

I might remind people that there are far more employees involved in running a railroad than those few that actually operate trains. I worked for a short line that employed 100 people, of which less than 25 were qualified train and engine service employees. About twice as many were involved in maintenance of way. Then there were about ten involved in maintenance of equipment (cars and locomotives) and the remaining 15 to 20 were General and Administrative which covered Transportation, Information Technology, Accounting, and my department, Pricing, Marketing and Sales. Everyone else spent the money, my job was to bring it in!!! :lol: 8)

Wow, that's great. Did you mention that you had relatives that worked for BNSF, did you mention that you were a rail fan? I've been considering one day applying to BNSF myself, so I am very curious at how you got in, as I know there are actually some RR colleges around the country these days.

UP, Thats the way i feel with regards to the operating we do at the miniature live-steam railroad i work at...it costs us money and it's a lot of work, but the smiles on the kids faces make it all worth while. I've been in the cab of an RS23 many a time, and every time, i thank the crew (usually the same guys) for the ride and keep it to myself. Obviously, the laasstt thing i wanna do is get them in trouble...he looks out for me though, and doesn't mind the fact i'm in the cab with him. Not so much related to you, but to someone who is more a typical railfan (spends many hours a month trackside [i'm guessing at least 30 hours a month in my case])....do you think telling the railway that your an avid railfan would help or hinder your chances of getting a job? AR

I have moved some PM's over to this thread to help everybody!! I asked for permission before placing them here and this is a copy of the PM sent by me and a copy of the answer to my question!! Hope this info is usefully to everybody!! UPConductr wrote on Aug 11, 2005 - 12:40 AM: Sorry I havent responded to your last PM......been very busy lately!! Anyway I have a question to ask of you........ I have started a Q & A thread on the forums and I would very much like to paste a few of our PM's (with your permission of course) to that thread. I would be more than happy to keep answering your questions as I find great joy in doing so however, I think if you were to ask and I was to answer in my thread on the forums, it would not only be benificial to you but maybe a few other folks too, and after all, that is what NScale is all about, helping other people!! So what I am getting at....is.......may I cut and paste a few of our PM's to my thread? Answer: Thanks. You most certainly can. Just use someone else's name on them so I don't look too stupid. Just kidding. Post away!!

Thanks UPConductr, I did wonder if thats what they were for, they just seem to point forward rather than down. Anthony

I put together a lil photo album of a work train I was on for two weeks.... Check it out!! http://www.nscale.net/mod-photoshare-showimages-fid-308.html

I find that most interesting, Kamota, and I want to thank your for taking the time to post all that. I have read many of your other posts concerning the NZ rail road and find it to be very interesting and very different when compared to the US rail roads. Training here for a conductor position (Senior Guard in your case) is a 14 week course. The first 3 weeks are in a class room setting. Most of the time is spent learning the rule book. Mostly it covers operating rules for the rail road. For example, how to throw different kinds of switches, how to do train (car) placement, how to operate in our 4 different kinds of authority and such. There is a trip or two out to the yard for some "hands on" experience. Such as learning how to get on and off moving equipment, couple cars, kick cars, change knuckles (couplers), change air hoses and how to hook up air hoses. After successful completion of the 3 week training course, one is then assigned to work in a few different yards for the next 5 weeks. We work as a 3rd man in your case. After you finish your 5 weeks of yard work you are assigned to a conductor on the mainline for 2 more weeks of training. Basically you learn first hand the job of a conductor. After that its back to class for 2 weeks. (Conductor Class) All that is done here is review of the first 3 weeks of class and in depth study of our four operating authorities. At the end of the 2 weeks we take a Conductors final exam. After passing the exam, you return to the main line with your assigned conductor for 2 more weeks of training. After finishing the training you are "marked up" (on your own) as a conductor. My job is working on the main line (Through Freight) or working a local (Goods train). I am 100 percent responsible for my train just as your conductors with 15 years experience. About 10 years ago....the US rail roads did away with the caboose (Guard Van) with the advent of the End of Train devise (probably much like the ones used by NZ railways) Prior to that, there was an Engineer, Fireman, Conductor, Switchman and one Brakeman on the train. A 5 man crew was knocked down to a 2 man crew in the post caboose days. If I make a mistake, "stuff up or wreck" anything as you put it, I am fired for a while. Depending on the severity of my mistake, it could be for 2 days up to 90 days. Unless its a drug violation, most people here are never PERMINANTLY fired!! There will be an investigation into the incident to find out who was in the wrong. (Me or the railroad) After completion of the investigation it would then be determined how much time off (fired) I get if any at all. Please don't think that the US railroads can teach one everything they need to know in 14 weeks......because that isn't the case!! Railroading as a life time of learning!!! One more thing that may surprise you...........I will be an engineer in less than 2 years!!!

Dear UP Conductor, Many thanks for your reply - it's very enlightening! You mentioned the reduction in train crew numbers, from 5 down to 2. In NZ, the same process was followed, but as you will see, it was a little more savage, and a lot more rapid. If you can bear with me; the staff reduction process in New Zealand was like this: Originally, in steam days, the train crew consisted of Driver (you'd call them the Engineer), Fireman and Guard. The Driver and Fireman drove the locomotive, but the Guard was in charge of the train - including the engine crew. He had all the responsibility for what went on whie the train was out on the 'road, and was additionally charged with looking for anything that might be wrong while the train was in transit. In military speak, he was 'Officer in Charge' of the train. With the advent of diesels in the 1950's the NZR tried to get rid of the Fireman, as he no longer had anything to do (there was no 'fire' in a diesel after all), but because of very strong union opposition, retained him, and retitled him 'Locomotive Assistant' (or L.A). He thus became a glorified scenery-watcher, with little to do practically except act as the driver's 'gofer'. He did however also have to watch the driver and learn enough to eventually become a driver too. The Guard however, stayed put. In the early '80's, things changed - rapidly. NZR mangement, under pressure from the Govt, decided that the Guard was obsolete, that single manning (driver-only in charge of the entire train) was the way to go, and that EOT's would replace the'van. The guards, being redundant, would be either reassigned (aka demoted, with a consequent loss of pay), or could take redundancy (known locally as 'taking the money and running'). The unions were VERY unhappy, and a temporary compromise was reached with NZR management. The van could go, and no new L.A's would be employed for training. Those L.A's currently in training would continue in their positions, and eventually all become qualified drivers. This latter requirement caused major problems for some, as there were many LA's, (ex steam firemen), approaching retirement who were really very happy just being L.A's - they had gone as far as they wanted to, yet here was the NZR insisting that they had to get their ticket - or go down the road!! Some choice - not!! However, those guards who would like to, could be appointed as new L.A's, and would join the loco driver-training scheme! There was, of course, a very large drop in wages for any Guard who chose to go that way!! Several did however - it meant that they still worked for the organisation, and became so became Acting Locomotive Assistants (Guard). However, even that did not last long - within a year (1988), single-manning was a reality. All L.A's and Guards were gone - redundant or demoted. As I said, a temporary arrangement - though only management knew how temporary!! The unions certainly didn't!! Single-manning is now the way that the system operates, though Shunters do occiasionally ride in the cab to assist the driver. (Shunters note, not Guards!) As this elimination of the L.A's and Guards was also at a time when the whole country went through a huge economic upheaval, and staff were being laid off in every Govt. department, they were not alone. Incidentally, To give an idea of the decimation, from 1986, when the singlemanning came in, and the NZR was privatised, having been a Govt. Depatment, we went from 23,000 staff to 11,000 in 18 months, and eventually, by 1989, were down to 400!! The redundancy process, incidentally, still continues!! And as for your engineer (driver) training . . . Without writing a lot more, I regret to say that in NZ, the situation is now one where drivers are out on the 'main, in full command of very heavy trains (frequently with 3 locos on the head), 3 months after being employed!!!! That is very fast, too fast, especially in this country where there is some very fierce terrain, and some very nasty accidents have resulted - largerly from excess speed on curves Most of the experienced drivers have gone overseas - largely to Australia (MT. Tom Price - Bryan), the UK, and, a very few, to the USA, though this latter was mainly when the NZ railway system was owned by Wisconsin Central. Your 2-years training is, by the standards now pertaining in NZ, very slow!!. I hope that you have found this of interest - perhaps you may care to share what your Driver (sorry - Engineer) training consists of? Happy modelling Komata

UP Conductor I would like to say THANK YOU for taking the time to show the two youngsters around the engine. You most likely made two little boys very happy! My wife had a home-site daycare business in our house a few years ago. Several times when I was at home I would take the group of kids out for a little railfanning. The kids always wanted to go out in the truck, 2000 International Condo(big sleeper) unit, and a couple of times we all went in the tractor. Two adults, 6-8 kids(ages 3-7) all in the truck. The SOUTHERN RAILWAY had a long grade coming up out of the OHIO RIVER valley going west bound towards St. Louis. At the top of the grade was a long tunnel, at the top portal was a parking area used for MW vehicles. I'd pull the truck in, wait for the train which we had chased up the valley, talk to the kids about the trains and how to railfan SAFELY. The engineers were all smiles when they saw our little group of kids waving and grinning. One day, when I had a small group of kids with me, as the engine on the head end passed by us, the Conductor came out the front door, came across the platform, and waved at me to get my attention. He yelled as they went by, maybe 10 mph, "Ed says to tell you that Bob is running the pusher, and he'll tell Bob that you're up here" I knew both engineers. After the train stopped, they cut off the pushers, and moved the pushers into the hole to wait for clearance to go back down the grade, Bob waved the group over and gave the kids a tour of the engines, two SD 40-2's. I took some pictures of Bob and the kids. Each kid got a copy of the picture and I made sure Bob got a copy also. Bob's wife says he is very proud of that picture and had it framed for their home. The kids talked about the outing for months, and I had several adults ask if they could go with us the next time we all went out to see THE TRAINS I'm the guy in the 18-wheeler, usually with camera in hand, waving at you at the grade crossing.

Kamota, that was most interesting!! There has been some talk of reducing to a 1 man crew here to.....but I am not sure if they will get that done. All of the guys here that lost their jobs with the crew reduction were offered jobs as conductors (Guards) or a buy out! (Redundant--take the money and run!!) I will let you know when I go thru Engineer (Driver) school........I know its a few weeks of class and 100 starts as a fireman in training before one becomes an Engineer. Thanks for the links Bryan.....I found that most interesting too!!

hi upconductor, i was looking at the up site career section and i'm wondering if the conductor course that you took is listed as train service? i want to apply in the spring after i'm done with college! much thanks, MC

Thanks for the info, UPConductr! :mrgreen: MC

Dont worry about it, this is a prototype forum. We are happy to have you and your knowledge here with us.

You just might be in luck......just so happens we have an Buck Undercutter working near the home terminal!! There is a bunch of machinery that works with that machine! As a matter of fact.....I worked the ballast train that works with that equipment just the other day!! I will check it out for ya and see what I come up with.... You can check this out in the mean time.... Harsco Mark II Torsion Beam Tamper

I went and did a lil investingatin' and the equipment has left the area. They have finished their work till spring time and have moved to a warmer climate. I will keep an eye out....sure I will find one someday. (This post gives me Conductor status!!! WooHoo UPConductr is finally a Conductor!!) :pint: :drunk: :mrgreen:

I am glad to hear that you had an opportunity to get up close and personal with a Mark II....coulda been a while before I found another one...lol Anyway....would love to see a photo or two of the one your building!!

I was just wondering do the CSX and the UP ever cross paths. I don

How do they figure locomotive payback hours and which locos will be used? Is this in exchange for trackage rights? Here around KC i've been seeing alot of NS power on the BNSF transcon. Also see alot of UP on NS's Wabash line. Is this so the can keep the train together and run on NS's lines with there cab signaling and a way around swapping out power at a interchange. Just yesterday I saw a BNSF intermodal train with 2 BNSF locos and a CN loco waiting as a UP intermodal passed them...also a westbound and this was on BNSF's transcon... Just curious as to why the increase in foreign power on there lines.

Up Conductor, Here's one for you. We have a small track that runs imediately beside our wharehouse. It's either a spur track or a branch line. Every few days a train will rumble past with a few cars led by a UP loco and a "bloody nose" SP job. Why would locos from 2 railroads be sharing a train like that? Bob

My Bad! :oops: That does explain the different schemes though on the same train. doesn't it? Same railroad. Bob

Finding an unmolested CNW engine on the UP these days is the equivalent of finding a needle in a haystack!! :D However, there have been 3 CNW units running around this area. Between Des Moines IA, Proviso IL and Valley Park MN. I took pictures of 2 of them and they are included in my "Gallery". The third one was being used on a ballast train near Proviso IL. I saw these three units the other day....they are all back together again, but its highly unlikely that you will ever see them in Seattle. A great site for CNW pix is the Chicago & North Western Historical Society The engine on the magazine shown on the homepage is the one I was on in December....it is pictured in my gallery.

Your in luck!!! The CNW 8701, 8575, and 8646 will be in Seattle Feb 4th!!! These are the last 3 original CNW engines left of the railroad that have not been repainted or renumbered. They are scheduled to arrive tomorrow around 9am. They will be pulling an auto rack. I strongly encourage you to hunt them down and get pictures if you can as this may be the only chance you get to see them.

Up Conductor, where were you hired at. And what pools are you running from. I recently applied for the position in Clinton, IA and was wondering were I would be running from. Would I being running from both Proviso to Clinton and or Clinton to Boone, IA. Just curious as to what to look for if I was hired for that postion. Thanks Jack, I have responded to your PM. If you have any more questions about getting hired on......drop me a PM!! Thanks....UPC

Will there ever be a time when you work reguar hours everyday but get off weekends?

Siderod hit it right on the head!! Those jobs exist...but you have to have a fair amount of seniority to hold it. I just changed locations and have worked 3 days in the past 2 weeks....which is a good deal because I am guarenteed to make so much per week if I work or not....so long as I am available IF they need me. However, somebody with more seniority thought they needed that spot worse than me......so its back to the daily grind.

Thank you....and thanks for taking the time to read it!! I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed your story...would love to hear more some time!!

A career with any railroad can be a rewarding one. Do you have one in particular in mind?

Well actually, around here you need a lot of "whiskers" to hold a yard job so I started off working road jobs right away! :D Most new people work the "Extra" board here, covering road trains, yard jobs, etc. I was fortunate enough to get a "pool" turn right away. In my class of 15, only 3 of us had enough seniority to hold a pool turn....everybody else works the extra board. All the new guys are on the extra board or the enhanced training board. I still don't have enough "whiskers" to hold the yard anywhere around here. I have heard many good things about the CN, I think that would be a great company to work for, and have thought about checking into CN myself. I haven't heard to much about CP however. We have trains that get handed off to both the CN and CP, and we cross the CN in the area that I work. I love the paint scheme they use....once in a while I catch a CN loco for a leader.....they have the nicest equipment I have ever been on!!!! I am not sure how it is up in your neck of the woods...but I would guess that if the guys are telling ya you will work the yards for a while...then I would say that is probably what you would end up doing. Personally, I love yard work.....and would do that now if it paid better and I could hold it! :?