Digitrax 163K1B installation on Athearn SD70M

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

Digitrax advertised that the DN163K1B decoder was the correct board for the Athearn SD70M. When I removed the SD70M shell, however, there are some differences from the Kato locomotives on which I've installed the identical board. For example, there are no copper contact strips on the locomotive that would mate with the copper contacts on the decoder.

I placed a small piece of Kapton tape to the frame above the motor (per the instructions for installation on a Kato locomotive). I bent the decoder's motor clips inward so they contact the sides of the motor. The board fits neatly under the frame clips.

On my program track, I can't get a readout from the locomotive ("no data"). When I place the locomotive on the main line, it makes a loud hum. Occasionally, and inconsistently, I can get get the lights to flicker BRIEFLY when I shake the locomotive. Obviously, the board is not installed correctly. Anyone have any suggestions?

-- Art

Submitted by AGrant on Tue, 12/11/2007 - 22:02.

70Runner

Posts: 336
Joined: 2003-12-20

I have a service bulletin

I have a service bulletin from Athearn for installing decoders in some of these. I will post it here.

Scott S.

http://handlaidtracksupplies.fast-tracks.net/index.php

Tue, 12/11/2007 - 23:09

70Runner

Posts: 336
Joined: 2003-12-20

SD70M Bulletin

Scott S.

http://handlaidtracksupplies.fast-tracks.net/index.php

Tue, 12/11/2007 - 23:15

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

Probably Already Fried My Board

Thanks. I would never have figured it out. Digitrax's website wasn't helpful; they said it's the right board but contact Athearn. I couldn't find anything on Athearn's website about board installations. Glad you know where to search. How do you find this type of info?

Based on the warnings in the tech bulletin, unfortunately I probably fried my board by letting it touch the frame. Nonetheless, I'll give it a shot.

Again, many thanks.

-- Art

Wed, 12/12/2007 - 00:32

70Runner

Posts: 336
Joined: 2003-12-20

The bulletin came from

The bulletin came from Athearn a year or so ago. I can't find it on Athearn's site anymore,So I bet you have to call thier tech support to get it now. The bad thing is that there is at least 4 or 5 different motor contact configurations for these. Some are easy to drop a board in some(like yours) not so easy.

Scott S.

http://handlaidtracksupplies.fast-tracks.net/index.php

Wed, 12/12/2007 - 01:48

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

That isn't going to be the

That isn't going to be the only issue you run into with the K1B. The LED will need to be filed down since it sits to far out and doesn't clear the light tube. Now I don't believe Digitrax actually states this decoder is for the Athearn SD series, on the Kato SD70's, 40's, 40-2's, 4400's, etc... The decoder you should've gotten is the K1C since it is the same board as the K1B but has SMC LED's so there is no filing and worrying about damaging the LED.

Exactly what engine did you buy and then I'll be able to tell you what you need to do to get it to work as I've worked on all the Athearn SD's. Just keep one thing in mind next time if it doesn't program don't put it on the mainline. This is a first clue as to something isn't right and can be corrected before you do damage, now you can still be lucky and it isn't a dead decoder, digitrax are pretty good at stopping reverse current through the motor contacts.

Wed, 12/12/2007 - 10:48

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

Appreciate Any Help

Here's a photo of the shell, frame, and decoder sitting in the frame. It is ATH 10719 SD70M NS 2581.

[G2:47003]

I had placed it on the main line and run power through it. Maybe it's not fried; based on your comment I'm hopeful.

Wed, 12/12/2007 - 11:29

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

This is the right

This is the right directions for installing the decoder in this engine. It's a little more work then any of the other Athearn SD series but it does work. If you don't like this type of install you can buy a new motor from Athearn with the tabs and install that for an easier DCC install. http://www.athearn.com/ProdInfo/Files/ATH_N_DCC_Instructions.pdf

The other thing too is you might have to tin the contacts that the frame slides onto for better contact. The Digitrax board is a lot thinner then the light board and doesn't make great contact which is why the programming track couldn't read it too.

Wed, 12/12/2007 - 12:20

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

Thanks for Evaluating

Appreciate you taking a look at my situation. I may run it as code 000 until I get up the courage to separate the frame. Haven't done that before. Don't know if engine falls out, trucks fall out, or whatever else unexpected can occur.

Also, thanks for the URL.

Thu, 12/13/2007 - 21:53

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

I actually never took the

I actually never took the frame apart. You can just pull the wires up with a pair of tweezers and do it that way.

But trust me there is nothing in the frame that is scary enough to take it apart. It is all very simple and basic.

Thu, 12/13/2007 - 22:42

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

The Saga Continues

Well, I screwed up my courage and went to work. (Un)fortunately, I unscrewed the screws too far and the trucks fell out. Okay; I took the frame apart, found the relevant wires, bent them per the directions, repositioned (hopefully) all the pieces in the frame correctly, and screwed it back together.

Inserted the decoder, put the loco on the program track, and got a reading from the board. Reprogrammed the address to the one I wanted, checked the read-out to make sure it was correct, and put the loco on the ops track. There was a short flash of light from the led as I was putting it on the track. But now on the main line, I can't get the motor to go, make a noise, or anything.

Any thoughts?

Thu, 12/13/2007 - 22:57

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

Did you notch back the

Did you notch back the motor tabs as per the instructions. If you didn't they would be touching the metal can of the motor and shorting that way. If this is the case and don't want to trim the tabs like I didn't, then make sure you put a little kapton tap on the metal of the motor when the motor tabs from the decoder would sit then try it. But make sure the little wires from the motor are under the motor tabs sometimes the slip off and aren't touching the motor tabs.

The short little flash of the LED is normal and doesn't mean anything is wrong... do the LED's function normally when you select the assigned number and change direction?

Thu, 12/13/2007 - 23:44

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

Tried Kapton Tape

Missed the point of the directions on notching the front edge of the PCB tabs. Still haven't done that, but tried the kapton tape covering the motor can on both sides. Still don't get any response from the motor.

Do get a sort flash of the LED's when I place the loco on the ops track. I don't get any LED functionality when I select the assigned number and reverse direction.

Also, continue to get the correct address read-out when on the program track. Does the brief flash of the LED and the read-out when on the program track indicate the board is okay? As you may recall, I unfortunately put the loco on the mainline and the PCB tabs probably contacted the motor can.

Fri, 12/14/2007 - 00:06

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

Usually that's a sign that

Usually that's a sign that things are still good... I know this might sound dumb but when you select the address are you turning on the LED with F0. The headlight doesn't come on automatically you need to turn it on then it will change directions as you do.

Do you have a volt meter that you can check the motor tabs and see if there is any output?

Fri, 12/14/2007 - 09:43

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

Didn't Know How...

to do that. I'm a recent returnee to model railroading and new to DCC. I'm just happy I've been able to program a new address.

So I just tried out F0. Yes, now that I've activated F0, the headlights come on depending on the direction I select.

I don't have a volt meter.

Fri, 12/14/2007 - 16:45

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

Let me add...

that I'm appreciative that you're hanging in there with me on this.

-- Art

Fri, 12/14/2007 - 16:47

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

Bought a volt meter

Checked the voltage on the two metal tabs connected to the decoder board (are they the motor tabs?). Needle on meter barely moves.

Fri, 12/14/2007 - 17:40

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

Ok so we know that it is

Ok so we know that it is working on that address and it is responding to commands. Now just have to find out what's going on with the motor. I would almost say one of the little motor wires has slipped out from under the motor tab which I had happen on the first one I did. Normally it's the one that points up that causes the issue or is the biggest pain to get under the motor tab. So what I would do is make sure the motor wire is sitting on top of the kapton tape on both sides on the side of the motor and then reinstall the decoder making sure the one that points up goes under the motor tabs. Like I said this can be the biggest pain. Just make sure there is no contact of the motor wires to the motor can or frame. Depending on how much kapton tape you used you might have to use more and make sure the whole side of the motor can is covered where the motor wire and tabs could hit.

Fri, 12/14/2007 - 17:43

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

As best as I can tell...

the wires are touching the motor tabs and touching neither the frame nor the motor can. Testing with the voltmeter, I have full voltage in the frame.

It's not clear how power is supplied to the decoder board. Is it supplied from the frame to the board through the two copper tabs at the front of the board, next to the LED, and inserted under the notches in the front of the frame?

Also, it's not clear to me how power is suppled to the motor. Is it from the board, through the motor tabs, to the small wires that I have repositioned per the Althearn instructions?

It appears there is power to the board because the LED's light up correctly. Is it possible that there is insufficient power through the board to power the motor? Is there a way for me to check the voltage running through the board?

I ask this because I have not tinned the two copper pads that are inserted under the frame in the front of the board. Could that be the source of my problem; i.e., while some power is passing from the frame to the board, not enough is passing to run the motor?

Fri, 12/14/2007 - 22:25

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

You are correct at how the

You are correct at how the board gets its track power. It is then filtered and rectified through the board and out to the motor via the motor tabs to the motor wires. If you hook the volt meter up to the motor tabs and increase the throttle you should get a reading on the volt meter which will tell you whether or not the decoder is sending out power. Not having the contacts soldered isn't a big deal right now since we know we have a good enough connection for programming and LED function if the motor wires are under the motor tabs correctly we should have motor function and the voltmeter will tell us if there is a voltage being applied to the motor. Now if we are getting a voltage there then we have to look at either our contacts to the motor or the motor itself.

Sat, 12/15/2007 - 08:15

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

No Voltage

...reading at the motor tabs. That's why I wonder if the problem is power to the board (or a fried board). It seems to me, without a voltage reading at the motor tabs, there's no way for power to be supplied to the motor wires.

Sat, 12/15/2007 - 10:14

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

That's the one thing I was

That's the one thing I was affraid of but hoping it wasn't. I would say it's a fried board then. If you have another board you can try see if that works now with everything properly isolated if you don't then I'd suggest pickig up a K1C as you won't have to worry about filing the LED's to clear the shell.

But if the LED's are on while you checked the voltage at the motor tabs then you have a fine connection and it's a fried board. If you bought if from a actual hobby shop take it back to them and either have them check it or see if they will do an exchange if not then you'll have to send it into digitrax and hopefully they will replace it free.

Sat, 12/15/2007 - 10:20

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

Now I've Really Done it!

LED's were bright while checking the motor tabs and finding no voltage there. But...

Decided to avoid a shortcut and file "notches" in the motor tabs per the Athearn instructions. One of the tabs broke off. Don't think soldering it back together is much of an option.

I'll order a K1C. Again, I really appreciate you walking me through this.

Sat, 12/15/2007 - 10:33

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

Not a problem... as long

Not a problem... as long as you have kapton tape covering the motor then you don't need to worry about trimming down the motor tabs. I didn't feel like doing that to the board for the simple fact of worrying about what happened to you happening as well as if I ever decide to take the decoder out and use it in a Kato engine I want the full tab there.

So you plan on sending it back to digitrax and getting it repaired/replaced?

Sat, 12/15/2007 - 11:05

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

If You Think It's Worth a Try

I've just ordered a K1C; that should take care of the Athearn.

Never sent anything to Digitrax. I'll check their website to find out how to do it. I have a couple of Kato's that use a K1B (a SD70 MAC and a 4400CW) so a K1B board will always be handy.

Sat, 12/15/2007 - 11:18

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

Just make sure you send

Just make sure you send them a good note explaining what you were trying to do and which engine you were trying to put it in.

Sat, 12/15/2007 - 11:55

AGrant

Posts: 76
Joined: 2007-08-19

Digitrax's Response!!

They sent me a brand new board at no charge! What a great company! Took a total of ten days from the day I shipped it to them until the day I received the new board. I'm astounded.

Wed, 01/09/2008 - 23:22

mavrick0

Posts: 161
Joined: 2005-12-27

They are a good company to

They are a good company to deal with. So now you have a K1B for a Kato engine it's designed for.

Thu, 01/10/2008 - 10:00

Jacko-Pat

Posts: 270
Joined: 2007-11-16

I really like Digitrax decoders

I must say that I am very pleased with the Digitrax decoders I have installed and are now using. I have the NCE Power Cab throttle and it seems to like the Digitrax decoders just fine. By the way, the EM-13 that is sold for the Kato GS-4 is made by Digitrax because when I programmed one of them it reads out the Manf. code of 129 (Digitrax).

Jacko

Fri, 08/15/2008 - 09:31

Digitrax 163K1B installation on Athearn SD70M

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