It's not exactly what I'm doing as it's hard to get it perfect on Atlas Right Track. I'm using code 80 flex track with 15" min radius. The upper right corner (ballon) is one track (inner) under the mountain, the other track (outer) goes up and over, but they both come back together at sea level. The lower ballon is an ocean port with a 100 TEU feeder vessel. There is a turntable with roundhouse in teh yard, and there will be a Mi-Jack Container Crane to unload the Intermodal ISO Containers. The back of teh mountain will have a siding going to the logging camp, and the other sidings will be a modern saw mill, a factory, an grain place (elavator? That ADM one atlas has) and a farm at the bottom of the mountain, just no enough room to put it all in with Right Track.
Please let me know your thoughts. The hand drawn version is much better, but I still have to find a way to scan it in for y'all to see it.
I should mention that it looks like I have two different directions butting into each other. The crossing point next to the turntable does not really cross. The connections are backwards. The outer track stays outer and the inner track stays inner and the whole thing path moves in a clockwise rotation. The inner section in the lower balloon actually connects to the outer section, so there's two paths to take for the trains to take. Like I said, it's hard to get perfect on RTS, but you get the general idea.
My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Here's the layout plan I came up with after finding out the radii I was using on a 4' x 8' (about 9 1/2") wasn't going to work. This layout is (from upper right corner) 12' x 10' x 6' x 6' each square is 1' x 1', but for some reason (possibly my inattention) it came out 11' across the top-DOH!!!:
It's not exactly what I'm doing as it's hard to get it perfect on Atlas Right Track. I'm using code 80 flex track with 15" min radius. The upper right corner (ballon) is one track (inner) under the mountain, the other track (outer) goes up and over, but they both come back together at sea level. The lower ballon is an ocean port with a 100 TEU feeder vessel. There is a turntable with roundhouse in teh yard, and there will be a Mi-Jack Container Crane to unload the Intermodal ISO Containers. The back of teh mountain will have a siding going to the logging camp, and the other sidings will be a modern saw mill, a factory, an grain place (elavator? That ADM one atlas has) and a farm at the bottom of the mountain, just no enough room to put it all in with Right Track.
Please let me know your thoughts. The hand drawn version is much better, but I still have to find a way to scan it in for y'all to see it.
I should mention that it looks like I have two different directions butting into each other. The crossing point next to the turntable does not really cross. The connections are backwards. The outer track stays outer and the inner track stays inner and the whole thing path moves in a clockwise rotation. The inner section in the lower balloon actually connects to the outer section, so there's two paths to take for the trains to take. Like I said, it's hard to get perfect on RTS, but you get the general idea.
It's not exactly what I'm doing as it's hard to get it perfect on Atlas Right Track. I'm using code 80 flex track with 15" min radius. The upper right corner (ballon) is one track (inner) under the mountain, the other track (outer) goes up and over, but they both come back together at sea level. The lower ballon is an ocean port with a 100 TEU feeder vessel. There is a turntable with roundhouse in teh yard, and there will be a Mi-Jack Container Crane to unload the Intermodal ISO Containers. The back of teh mountain will have a siding going to the logging camp, and the other sidings will be a modern saw mill, a factory, an grain place (elavator? That ADM one atlas has) and a farm at the bottom of the mountain, just no enough room to put it all in with Right Track.
Please let me know your thoughts. The hand drawn version is much better, but I still have to find a way to scan it in for y'all to see it.
I should mention that it looks like I have two different directions butting into each other. The crossing point next to the turntable does not really cross. The connections are backwards. The outer track stays outer and the inner track stays inner and the whole thing path moves in a clockwise rotation. The inner section in the lower balloon actually connects to the outer section, so there's two paths to take for the trains to take. Like I said, it's hard to get perfect on RTS, but you get the general idea.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
I should mention that it looks like I have two different directions butting into each other. The crossing point next to the turntable does not really cross. The connections are backwards. The outer track stays outer and the inner track stays inner and the whole thing path moves in a clockwise rotation. The inner section in the lower balloon actually connects to the outer section, so there's two paths to take for the trains to take. Like I said, it's hard to get perfect on RTS, but you get the general idea.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
bsczar1
It looks terrific. You have great space to work with. The plan looks like a balanced mix of running, operations and scenery. Someday I'd love to have that kind of space.....not that I'd ever be able to finish it. I'm tow years into a 30" x 60" and nowhere near finished.
BNSF, so I guess you are running modern era big diesels?
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Overall, good plan!
There are a couple of question I have.
Are you planning a popup in the top right corner for access? You won't be able to reach that far back there for maintinance or derails.
One last thing,.....people room looks a might tight. 24" is not a lot of room to move, and the angled access to get into the layout looks tighter then that.
Other then that, good plan!
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
pcarrell wrote:
No. No pop-up is necessary because that is where the mountain (hill) will be, and it's hanging out in the open, so I can access from the side. The backside far right 4" section will be where the logging operation is at. Below is my original plan. The brown line is where the mountain starts. I'm using that same piece of plywood but just cutting it down and adding 1 1/2 more sheets of plywood.
Overall, good plan! There are a couple of question I have. Are you planning a popup in the top right corner for access? You won't be able to reach that far back there for maintinance or derails. One last thing,.....people room looks a might tight. 24" is not a lot of room to move, and the angled access to get into the layout looks tighter then that. Other then that, good plan!
This is mainly for me. It's in my basement, and others may view it, but I won't have gobs of people down there. Typically it will be just me and my 5 y/o daughter operating the trains. I had to design it "as is" due to space constrictions. I have a support pole that disallows any further exansion than the current configuration. There will be 4 sections. Each being approximately 4' x 6' so I can move it to and from train shows, if I decide to do so, or for when I move. The access point is 16", just big enough to get my fat-azz through it :lol: I have done extentisve work on the previuos plan with only 24' and it has worked fine, so I figured that 24" would be a good minimum for working/operating. It also fits the room and plywood needs fairly well.
I have pull up most of the corkbed I have glued down, and then I can start cutting and building. I have (3) 4' x 4' sections of 3/4" plywood, in addition to the 4' x 8' orginal sheet with 2' x 4' side section. I also have 2x4s for the benchwork outer edges and 1x4s for the center supports.
I have my Wisconsin Waterfowl Association State meeting/conference this weekend, and I start school on Monday and Tuesday, a new black lad puppy that needs attention/walking/training, so I may not be able to even start on it until next weekend. I plan to take pictures along the way so I have a history of the progress.Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Yup, this is in the corner of my basement. There is a wall along the top and left side. The right and bottom are "open" space. I say "open" because there's not a whole lot of room left due to my wood working shop, clothes washer, hunting clothes dresser, bookcase and the aformentioned support pole. I just squeezed the biggest layout I could in the space I had available.
The previous owner of the house cut the main supports to put in air ducts and plumbing. Not the brightest crayon in the box. I guess the house started sagging because they had to bring in two I-beams to support the house. However, the I-beams were too big to get down there, so they were cut in half and supported with jack poles.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Well, finally got started on tearing up the original layout. I was using a plastic paint scraper and water to lift up the cork roadbed that had been glued down with white glue, but it broke, so I went and got the metal one. Wouldn't you know it, the metal one works 50 times better than the plastic one!!
I decided to pretty much start from scratch, leaving only a small section of track that goes under the mountain, and some of the original grade/mountain base. I will probably end up taking the all of the grade out and completely starting over because it is 4% and trying to fudge a 2-3% out of an existing 4% is more half-azzed than just ripping it out and doing it right.
Originally I had still planned on doing a flat layout with one raised area of track (at the mountain on the upper right corner), but now I will take advantage of starting over to use foam to create gorges, rivers, lakes and etc.. Rather than having 95% of the track on the same plane and only going up with scenery, I will now go either up or down with the scenery. I'm also kicking around an idea to modify my mountain so I'm not going up 2 3/8" (2" rise blocks with 3/8" plywood) I need the 2" to get my double stacks to go underneath, but that doesn't mean the whole section needs to be that high. I only need that height where the track goes underneath the mountain. I can lower the rest of upper section where the track goes "over" the mountain to a more workable height. Even 2" will help, but 1.5" would be even better. At this point I'm planning on a 3% grade. I do have room to go with 2%, but that would take up a long section of scenery dedicated to just the mountainous grade.
I suppose if I went with the cookie cutter method I'd be better off, but I prefer the idea of the solid 3/4" plywood base with foam on top. There will be 4 or 5 sections each roughly 2-4' x 6' I have a long way to go, but eventually I'll get there. I'm just eager to get the bench work done so I can start the actual build.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
For those of you have built layouts before, what spacing would you suggest I use for my benchwork support? I was planning on 24" on center. I am basically building it like a wall, but using two different sized board for framing. Instead of all 2 x 4s, the front and back benchwork edges are 2 x 4s, and the ends and the center supports will be 1 x 4s. I'm thinking 24" on center will be fine, but just want to check with y'all who have experience. BTW, I am using 3/4" plywood like you would sheetrock on a wall. Finally got the 4'x8' sheet cut tonight, so I should have the benchwork done by the end of the weekend.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
superdan wrote:
So then, what do you suggest? 20" on center, or 16" on center? I am using 3/4" plywood on top of 2x4s and 1x4s, so I had figured 24" would be OK, but I asked because I know y'all have more experience with this than I.
I just did some math, for the 6 foot sections (72") 18" on center would work out perfect. For the 4" sections, 16" on center would work. This is probably the route I'll go. I will be doing the majority of the work tomorrow. I'll try to snap some pictures and post them in the image section.Hey! If it were me, I would brace a little closer just for the reason that later down the road, it is going to want to warp or sag. Now is the perfect time to ensure that doesn't happen. Looks like a nice plan! Dan...
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Well, I didn't get as far as I had hoped, but I did get quite a bit done considering I got a late start both days, and was sidetracked more than once.
The first two sections of benchwork are built and up, and the third section just needs legs for it to be done. The fourth (and final) section will go pretty quick once I start on it. Each of teh 1st 3 sections are roughly (2' x 6') x 4' "L" shape. The pictures are a little dark, the flash didn't light it up as much as it should've. Doesn't really make sense, as I have a halogen light down there, as well as incandescents, so I would've thought they would've come out better. I definitely plan to invest in some flourescents.
http://nscale.net/mod-photoshare-showimages-fid-688.html
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Well, I guess I'm now officially going to do a coal train as well as intermodal, lumber, grain and reefers. I went to the LHS to get the February and March issues of Model Railroader (Yeah, I know-I do plan to subscribe) and low and behold what do I see:
Wisconsin Electric Power Company
Every day on my way to work I see these parked on the railroad bridge over the road that borders South Milwaukee (where I live) and Cudahy (where I was born and grew up) here in Wisconsin. In fact, on a Saturday morning not too long ago I stopped with my 5 year old daughter, and we went up on the tracks to get a closer look.
I about shitte myself when I saw them, so they are now on layaway ($83 for the set of 8 cars) as it was the only set they have of this special run by Kato. Now I just need 2 0r 3 more locos.... :roll:
Wisconsin Electric Power Company
Every day on my way to work I see these parked on the railroad bridge over the road that borders South Milwaukee (where I live) and Cudahy (where I was born and grew up) here in Wisconsin. In fact, on a Saturday morning not too long ago I stopped with my 5 year old daughter, and we went up on the tracks to get a closer look.
I about shitte myself when I saw them, so they are now on layaway ($83 for the set of 8 cars) as it was the only set they have of this special run by Kato. Now I just need 2 0r 3 more locos.... :roll: Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
So now that I'm planning to do coal, what are some good research resources I can use for designing it into my layout? I also need to research grain and lumbering operations. I was plannning on buying the Walthers Grain Elevator. If y'all can point in the right direction, I'd certainly appreciate it. I tried the library for lumber operations, but there wasn't any good information. I haven't checked for coal and grain yet. Most of what I've learned is from searching online. I'm pretty familiar with intermodal, so I'm set there. Also, I inadverantly bought a bunch of reefers, so I'm thinking I'll do a fruit train as well-I have BNSF Western Fruit Express cars and a BREX, so I should look into this as well. Thanks in advance for you help or suggestions.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Well, I got the 3rd section done tonight, as well as adding extra legs and bracing to the 2nd section. Tomorrow I'll build the last section of benchwork, and put 2 more braces on the 1st section's legs, and then I'll be ready to actually start building after I screw the plywood down to the bench work.
I'm sort of using this thread as my build journal-I hope y'all don't mind... Oh yeah, and I'll post some more pictures once I get the bench work done tomorrow.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Well, I opted to install some better lighting, namely two 4 foot flourescent light strips and one incandescent fixture. Had to install a new outlet too, but it was worth it. Now I'm not buring up under the halogen light. :twisted:
I got the benchwork preety much done. All I have left is to connect sections 2 & 3 and 3 & 4 together, put two braces on section one, and screw down the plywood. I updated my photo album, took out many of the half benchwork pictures and put in some of the whole benchwork.
http://nscale.net/mod-photoshare-showimages-fid-688.html
I found that old adage of measure twice, cut once really rings true. I had to disassemble and re-assemble that last section 3 times last night. What should've been an easy task became a royal PITA, all due to being tired and measuring wrong. Good thing I got the electrical out of the way early, hey?
Anyhow, I'm getting ready to head back down to put the bracing on section # 1, and clean up the rest of the basement. Next week I can start building-WOOHOO.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Hi Brian,
Your work is looking great! I wished I had that much room to work with. If I did. I could watch the trains travel across the state. You will really have alot of real astate to travel. Keep us posted, and have a great day!
From Rob Webb
--
Rob---Roanoke,Virginia: The Norfolk Southern Crossroads Capital!!! , And my well missed home!!
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Nice layout space. Your pictures SEEM to show a dark area for your layout, but the camera isn't seeing what your eye sees! I'll bet with those flourescents, the layout is pretty well lit!
Are you planning on putting a layer of foam over your plywood? I see several areas where the plywood pieces butt against each other. In my experience, unless the joints are well-braced from underneath, they will expand and contract at different rates and in different directions. That will play havoc with your trackwork! If you've already mentioned using foam, forgive me for not reading everything carefully! LOL PUtting large sheets of foam over the plywood will prevent any plywood distortion from getting to your track.
Nice work so far! Keep posting your progress!
Darrell, quiet...for now
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
I took out a bunch of the 1/2 benchwork pictures, and just put in the completed benchwork pics. I think I did that on Monday, so no, there's been no new pics in the last week. Actually, there's really nothing more to show. I bolted all 4 sections to each other, and screwed the plywood down, except one section that needs to have the old grade taken off and have a new grade put on. I had a 4% grade, with no lead in, so I need to redo it. I started laying out where my track is going to go, but wouldn't you know that as soon as I started doing that I realized I needed to make some changes. I planned where the track was going to go without giving much thought to buildings, streets and etc.
I'm lucky enough to have dark, damp, yucky basement that belongs to me, and therefore keeps the wife's thoughts away from of doing something with the space. I have the basement and garage, she has the rest!! :lol:
Yes, it's fairly lit up with the flourescents, but the camera for some reason makes it look really dark. Probably those dark walls down there. I wasn't planning on putting foam down, other than in a few areas where I want the ground or track higher than the rest of the layout. Each joint either falls at the end of a benchwork section, which is made like a wall with 2x4s, and is then screwed down tot he edges and "studs", or there are 2x4 cross braces to screw into. I used the plywood like sheathing. Each section is bolted to the next with 2 carriage bolts, and each leg (2x4 cut in half) has adjusters to adust the height. I planned to make the track joints fall in line with, or just past, the section joints by an inch or two so that if I need to move it I can just unbolt the individual sections, remove the legs, and then set it back up almost like a module. Do you think this is this going to be a problem?
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
You shouldn't have problems with that. The module builders do something similar. When they build a module, the track ends 2 1/2" from the edge of the module so that a 5" piece of sectional track can be used to join the modules together. You could do something similar so if you need to take the layout apart, you won't have to cut the track at the joints.
It's nice to have an area all for yourself, even if it is the basement! LOL
Darrell, quiet...for now
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Brian,
After checking out your
posts, is this the most recent ?
You might wanna drop some
foam on this sucker before
you start your inclines...
Especially if you got a few of
'em in diffrent spots...just a
thought.
I remember seeing these
pics, always liked this
basement space ya got !
Thanks, peace,
Phil
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Yeah, there hasn't been much change. The only thing I've added was the ocean section last night. Other than that I haven't worked on it for a few months. I'm in my 4th class this semester, and all of them have been accelerated where they run for anywhere between 6-8 weeks for 4 hours, one night a week, plus homework or projects, so I haven't had time to do a whole lot. I'm actaully just taking a break from my marketing project right now to send off "short" post.
I did stop at Menards this weekend and asked them if they ever get damaged foam that they'd sell at a discount. They said they don't keep track of it, but if they had some I could bring it up and get a discount. I went in back, and sure enough they had 2" foam that was "good" and 2" foam with broken corners. The "good" was marginal at $26 per 4' x8' sheet. The broken cornered pieces were just under $20 per sheet. I'm assuming I should go with the 2", right? Unfortunately I'm not able to afford it right now, as my wife I and have a motorcyle trip planned for June 22nd-24th to Iowa for the J & P Rally, so it'll have to wait until after that.
Once I get further along I'll try to update my pictures. The foam will do the trick. Then I can go up and down with the scenery, as you and Darrel have suggested, instead of just up. I probably don't even have to do the whole layout, but it would probaly be best if I did, otherwise I'd have to have a grade just to transition to the foam, and then I'll be in the same predicament as I'm in right now. I will need 2 1/2 sheets of 4' X 8' foam to cover the whole thing. Then there's the issue of the 3/4" plywood. When I eventually go to Tortoise Switch Machines I'll have to try to do it through 2 3/4" of material. I will pre-drill the holes as I'm laying track and turnouts, but I can't recall off hand how far from the top of the layout the Tortoise will work reliably. I know it's on their site or in their owner's manual, so I'll need to look that up before I make a final decision.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
This isn't a criticism...just a comment. I noticed you were looking at a 2 to 3% grade....probably closer to 3 if you're altering a 4%. How many cars were you planning to run on your trains? I have a 2.6% on my layout and it limits me to 8 to 10 cars per engine. That isn't really a problem for me, since I model the area around where I live, which is a helper district and you normally see 5 or 6 engines on a train. And I max out space wise at 30 cars. Also it adds an operating feature to my layout....cutting in the helpers. But I thought I'd point out you'll need more engines to deal with that grade. ........hmmmm.......since when is needing more engines a problem :)
I like your track plan though. You seem to have thought it out pretty well.
For your industries, the fact you have a port opens up some possibilities. Coal is frequently loaded on ships, although I believe your new cars are for a utility company (?) so perhaps you need to look into that. There's a lot of logging here in Montana, and they really don't do "logging camps" anymore. Most of what goes by rail gets trucked off the mountain to the mill, then hauled out as lumber by rail...or hauled by truck to a siding and then loaded on rail cars for transport ,usually to a pulp mill. Grain is also loaded on ships , so you could haul from your elevator to the port. That ADM elevator is a nice kit...I have one with the add on silos. I wish Walther's had brought that back too.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
That's part of my problem. I would prefer a 2% or less grade, but the distance I need to go up is 2 3/8" with the current design, which puts it at 6' 7" for a 3% grade, or 9' 10 3/4" for a 2%. I'm only running trains with 6-9 cars, but if want to run longer trains, which eventully I will, it will be a problem. That's why I'm seriously considering keeping the track flat, on 2" foam, and dig down or go up with the scenery. I originally had a 4% grade on my 4' x 8' layout, but what I wanted to do made the radii too tight, so I ripped it apart and started over. This was before I even got to laying track up the incline, which is still intact. I left that portion in place and cut away part of the original layout to use elsewhere, and added 1 1/2 more sheets of 3/4" plwood with a 2 x 4 base. I made the benchwork into as you see it now, on 2 1/2 sheets of 3/4" plywood. I've been debating just reducing the grade and where the trains go up and around the back of the mountain (hill). I still need 2" clearance for my double stacks to go under the mountain, so where the track runs I have to keep it that height (2" wood risers toped off with 3/8" plywood). However, where the train goes around the back I can lower it to a more acceptable level. That would still require inclines, but if I just go with 2" foam, I can create the illusion of an incline, I think.
I could also just put in a 1" rise 2% grade which is then only 4' 2" long. Decisions, decisions!! Luckily I haven't gotten past the benchwork stage yet, so the only track that is down is the 2 or 3 30" pieces of flextrack that will go under the mountain. I'm probably better off just redesigning that section so I can get started, but because I already had that portion started from the previous attempt, I was trying to salvage it. It's only about 1/8th or less of my entire layout, so if I just rip it up and start from scratch I'll probably come up with a better plan on how to accomplish what I want to do. If you look at the picture I linked to above, that are titled the same as this thread in the images section here on N-Scale.net, you can see in picture 3 and 4, what I have going on. Sorry for the dark pictures, the fourescents didn't light it up as I expected. So, is a 2% grade acceptable? How many cars should I be able to pull with one loco? I have a Kato SD40-2 and a Kato SD70Mac.
Speaking of which, we had 2 guys from EMD at our facility today. We may be suppling them with parts in the future. I didn't get a chance to talk to them, but I did tell the Engineer (Mechanical) at work that I need to tour their facility. 8) I'm the Logistics Manager, so I tried to explain that if we want to fully support their logistical needs, I need to go there. That worked about as well as when I tried to explain to my boss that I need to go to Belfast and Belgrade and Iceland for the same reasons. :lol:
As far as industries, trucks will haul the logs to the lumber mill, which will then take it to a Home Depot, Lowes or warehouse near the city area. The coal will go to a power plant also near r the city area. The grain will go to a factory or feed mill or something, and the ship is a container ship, so that will go to an intermodal yard incprporated into my main freight yard. The whole layout will transition from city and port area (West Coast Port) to a rural and eventually mountainous area. The continous loop serves as a simulated double mainline.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
ns4eva wrote:
Yeah, I got one down there, just need to plug it in. It's not real damp, just have a few leaks when it rains that need to be tuckpointed. What I really need to do is clean it up and organize it a little better. I should also get rid of the deer and turkey hunting and fishing magazines from the mid-late 90's that I've been holding onto. I'm a pack rack, and I figure as long as I have a bookshelf, I might as well keep it stocked, but I haven't looked at any of those magazines in many, many years. I guess I could fill it with my new collection of train and duck hunting books magazines.....Looking like a good plan so far! I remember noticing that you said something about the basement being damp? Maybe you might want to look into getting some sort of de-humidifier? Wouldnt want a good layout warping and rusting up :wink:
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Well, I officially started working on my layout again. I went to Menards and bought 3 sheets of 1" extruded pink foam. It was on sale last week for $9.77 a sheet, and they still had it tagged as so, even though the sale ended Sunday, so I got 2 for $9.77, and one that was damaged for $5.77, $4 off. I also bought some PL300 foam board adhesive, 2 tubes for a caulk gun. Stupid me, though, I cut the first two sheets in 3 even pcs. so I could fit them in my car: 32" each. Then I realized on my last sheet that most of my layout is 2 feet wide, so I should've cut them at 24". That's ok though, because I do have two large bubble ends: 4 x 6 and 4 x 5, so I can piece them together.
Tonight I got most of the old stuff ripped up, just have a short section of the old grade to rip up, and scrape the liquid nails up. Then I need to re-do the tracks under the mountain, and then I can get started putting the pink foam down. I think I'm going to use foam on part of the layout, and have some areas on the plywood, like under the mountain and at the seaport for a sea level area. Then it will transition upward as it gets closer to the mountain. Additionally, the parts of front half can be on the plywood, and the back half can be up 1" and then eventually 2" to further simulate 2 separate tracks, even though it's really just one big 60 foot loop. I'm still sort of working out the kinks of the plan before I start laying track, which will hopefully be this weekend.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Great to see you back at work on the railroad! LOL
Since you have a solid plywood base, cutting and fitting the foam will cause you no problems. If you didn't have the solid base, you could have problems getting foam pieces to stay in place.
Are you still using the same trackplan you originally posted at the start of this thread? Usually by now, most modelers have made some serious changes to their trackplans!! LOL
Keep up the good work and post more progress pictures.
Darrell, quiet...for now
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Thanks Darrell,
I'm pretty much using the same plan with some minor modifications to make it work. I designed it backwards, as in the trains running on the wrong side compared to how the prototypes travel. I had the East on the left side and West on right side. Now I plan to do it so it's prototypical, so all my sidings have to be reversed, but the main track line will remain pretty much the same.
As I said in my last post, I'm also going to have track on 3 different "levels" in 1" increments. The back half that runs along the walls will be 1" higher than the front, which will be on the plywood, or maybe on 1" foam, and then just another layer of 1" for the back half. If I do that, then I'll need more foam. The mountain area will be 2" up from the plwood, and maybe 3" depending on how the design comes out as I start to work on it. I do know my under-the-mountain area will be on the plwood and have 2" clearance for the double stacks. I may have it go up another 1" around the backside of the mountain. This way at any given transition I will only have 1" rise over 50" for a 2% max grade, much better than the 4% I had originally planned.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Well, I finally got some progress over the last few days. I re-did the whole mountain area except for one half of a radius that was ok. I decided to cut back the plywood for that area, and build up the front side, where there isn't any track, with foam. I still have a 4' x 21" piece of 3/8" plywood on 2" high blocks of 2x4s to support the mountain and give me my clearance for trains underneath. I can reach most of the track, but I plan to cut and hinge an access door underneath the layout so I can access all of it. Also, I went and bought a 4' x 24' fanfold sheet of 3/8" expanded foam (they didn't have it in extruded) so I'm going to cover my entire base with that as my 0", except the area where it transitions to the plywood under the mountain. I had a hell of a time getting the heights straight in my mind, but I finally got it figured out and glued down some 0"-3/8" 2% grades (a 1/2" cut back to 3/8"). My layout will transition from the 3/8" foam up to 1" and then to 2", and from 3/8" down to the -3/8" plywood base. Now that I have that area figured out, I can really get going on it.
My Western Coal Flood Loader will now be on the back side of the mountain, with a through siding for loading, and my logging camp will be on the front side, with no tracks due to prototype moving it via trucks, but the lumber mill will have a track for finished lumber, and I'll just put in a road to get the logs from the camp to the mill. I plan to get a lot done tomorrow, so I guess I should go to bed, hey? I'll try to take some pics once I get a little further along.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
bsczar1 wrote:
Are you planning on running empty hoppers to the mine, then manually adding loads to those hoppers as they pass through the flood loader?My Western Coal Flood Loader will now be on the back side of the mountain, with a through siding for loading, ...
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
sootower wrote:
I haven't really thought too much about it, as I'm at least a couple months away from even have the track completely laid. That's probably what I'll do once I actually get into operations. I had read about people doing that, and also putting a small round top colored pin in the load (with an inconspicuos pin hole), so they can sort them in the classification yard for movement to different destintions via shortlines or mixed trains. I will only have one destination, Wisconsin Energies, so I'm planning to run it as a unit train.
Now that you mentioned that, though, I'm thinking I should probably put in a stub siding so I can store empties, but I have to see if I have enough room to do that. Shouldn't be a problem, but it will take away from how much mountain space I have, unless I can squeeze it between the main line and through siding.Are you planning on running empty hoppers to the mine, then manually adding loads to those hoppers as they pass through the flood loader?
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Well, I didn't get anything (on the layout) done last week Sunday. I went down to get started, and the outlet, that has been in my way since the start of this project, pissed me off, so I ripped it out and moved it up about 2 1/2 feet, While I was at it, I put in a bigger box to make it four outlets. I got about halfway done, when my wife came down and said "Oh, you're busy, so I won't ask you." For anyone who's not married, this means, "I don't want to tell you to stop working so I can talk to you." I told her to just ask. Long story short, we went to the humane society and got a Beagle/Jack Russel Terrier puppy. She figured I had my big Black Lab for duck hunting, so she wanted a small dog for herself. That was pretty much the end of my progress last weekend, except for finishing the outlets.
This weekend I got quite a bit done, but as always, not as much as I expected. I went to see my dog at the kennel (retriever training) yesterday, but after I got home I was able to get rolling. I also worked on it all day today. I got the first 6' x 4' section (mountain area) covered with 3/8" foam, as well as the 1" and 1/2" foam riser bases done. I have my mountain grades almost all glued down. I also put in a road under the truss bridge with a surform. Thanks to this site and the people here, it looks awesome! I used WS grades, and I also used them as templates on my 1/2" foam to make my own flexible risers. I'll snap some pictures tomorrow when I can get some outdoor lighting to supplement the flourescents, otherwise they'll be dark like the ones already in my album.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Great to hear about your progress! Can't wait to see the pictures, either!
Having my "significant other" make a comment like "oh, I see you're busy. I'll come back later" or something to that effect, would send chills racing up and down my spine, cause my stomach to do a double-backflip with a twist and my eyeballs to cross! Glad it was only a new dog! LOL
I, on the other hand, spent much of my weekend helping my brother pick up a new bed for his condo in St. Louis and moving the old bed from St. Louis to his condo in Columbia, MO. It was something we have been talking about doing for over 6 months and now it's finally done!
During the dull moments of the trip, I thought about trains! That's some progress, for me!! LOL
Pictures! Pictures! We want pictures!
Darrell, quiet...for now
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
OK, I've updated my album:
http://nscale.net/mod-photoshare-showimages-fid-688.html
I took out a bunch of old pictures, and put in 4 new ones. The last one is my container vessel.
They are still dark, but that will be fixed soon. I did not do any work on it tonight. I met a guy from my neighborhod at the LHS a week or so ago, and we exchanged numbers. He called before I left work, so I went to his house to check out his layout, and then he came to mine to see my progress. He didn't leave my house about 9:45 PM.
I do not have a backdrop, but he suggested using some of 1/2" or 3/8" foam in blue, or pink painted blue, to hide the dark walls. I put up the pink stuff just to see how it would look, and man does it make a big difference. I also plan to do something with the ceiling above the layout. It'll be easier to do it now, rather than wait until I have a big portion of the layout done.
I do have one question related to DCC. Can I just use spade terminal connectors on my buss so I can easily separate my 4 sections? If I have to move it, I'd rather just pull the plugs apart than have to cut and then re-solder later, especially if I'm just moving it from a train show and back.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
bsczar1 wrote:
I remember (way back when) a layout featured in MR that had a mine on one side of a mountain and a power plant on the other side. Had a hidden track connecting the two. Loads in, empties out, and vice versa.sootower wrote:I haven't really thought too much about it, as I'm at least a couple months away from even have the track completely laid. That's probably what I'll do once I actually get into operations. I had read about people doing that, and also putting a small round top colored pin in the load (with an inconspicuos pin hole), so they can sort them in the classification yard for movement to different destintions via shortlines or mixed trains. I will only have one destination, Wisconsin Energies, so I'm planning to run it as a unit train. Now that you mentioned that, though, I'm thinking I should probably put in a stub siding so I can store empties, but I have to see if I have enough room to do that. Shouldn't be a problem, but it will take away from how much mountain space I have, unless I can squeeze it between the main line and through siding.Are you planning on running empty hoppers to the mine, then manually adding loads to those hoppers as they pass through the flood loader?
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Hi, Brian.
Nice progress!
I agree, you need some help in the area of backgrounds! Old concrete block walls are NOT going to add to the visual pleasure of your layout! LOL Using that thin, pink or blue foam for a backdrop will go a long way towards a more enjoyable layout.
I also agree that if you want to do something with the walls and ceiling, now is the time to do it. Consider adding more lights at the same time. Maybe not more flourescent lights, but I would consider some small directional lights, especially in the corners. If I remember correctly, light falls of with the square of distance. What is perfectly lit at 1 foot will only be half-lit at 2 feet!
I think I remember you saying you had already added additional electrical outlets for the layout. If I'm in error on that, you should consider adding outlets along with more lights.
Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see more!
Darrell, quiet...for now
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
I put up the blue foam as my background, and updated my album. I'll worry about painting clouds and scenes a few months (or years) down the road, when I have nothing better, or more, to do on the layout. Man what a PITA it was to put it on. I am glad I did it now, rather than waiting until later when I have a bunch of stuff in the way.
http://www.nscale.net/mod-photoshare-showimages-fid-688.html
I'll work on it some more tomorrrow night, and maybe some over the weekend if I have time. Got my family reunion on Saturday, and the little one (6 y/o daughter) and I are going fishing on Sunday. Otherwise there's always next week.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
NH2006 wrote:
Yeah, I gotta get a fence put up at the border to keep 'em out....though it is some pretty cheap labor..... 8)
She was so proud that she drew little hearts on part of my layout benchwork. I explained that eventually it's going to get painted or foamed over, but at least it makes it pretty in the mean time.:P Some kid keeps getting in your pictures!
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Wow! Those blue backdrops certainly brightened up the pictures! Maybe you don't need any extra lighting as I suggested earlier.
Are you sure you don't want to paint them sooner rather than later? I know it will take time away from construction now, but think about how hard it can be reaching OVER your finished layout with a WET PAINT brush in your hand!! Ouch!
Besides, I'll bet your daughter is pretty good at painting clouds! What better way for her to be involved with your layout? She can sit ON the layout and paint away! LOL
Nice progress. Keep up the good work!
Darrell, quiet...for now
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
Part of the problem is I'm not exactly sure what's going to go where. Some areas will have hills and trees or forest in the back ground, some will be just sky, and at least one area will have a farm, with yet another being semi-metropolitan. Plus much of my scenery may go up onto the background (plaster-wise), so it makes more sense, at least in my feeble mind, to wait until I have some of the scenery stuff done, and decide what needs to be painted, before I do any kind of background painting.
Re:My Re-designed BNSF Layout Plan
True, to a point.
Clouds and sky aren't going to change. Wherever you have scenery, you will have sky and maybe some clouds to go with it.
I think your daughter would have a blast painting the sky and some clouds. Keep the clouds towards the top of the backdrop. Later, when you start adding the foreground scenery, you can blend it into the sky backdrop. Don't forget, too, that you can always repaint any areas of the backdrop that need to be changed.
Another thought is to blend your scenery into the backdrop in layers. Use additional pieces of blue foam to bring the background FORWARD as the foreground meets it. Doing that provides a stepped transition from foreground to background. With some imagination, you can blend buildings as easily as mountains. But, as I said, it's just a thought.
Keep the forum posted on your progress. And your daughter's progress, too!!
Darrell, quiet...for now
Re-designed BNSF Layout
OK, I've been getting some work done, no track yet, but lots of foam. I've decied to do half of my layout at a time. Here is my yard plan, but I'm not sure if it's any good. I'm leaning towards "I also need to re-design the yard":
This is what I currently have planned. The two middle lines are my main lines, and each has two through sidings. The spacing is all equal for the lower 5 tracks, RTS just sucks if you're not familiar with it. The uppermost line is my intermodal unloading line, which has a slightly wide space between it and the others to facilitate the Mi-Jack crane. I did not finish the left side, but it will be similar to the right side.
What do y'all think? I have no run arounds, A/D tracks, lead track, crossovers nor etc. Not very good, hey? Please let me know how you would change it. The entering in from below and above the turntable will remain the same, but how I have my actual yard set-up is what needs improvement. Thanks in advance for your comments, critiques and suggestions.
Brian Czarnecki
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation." HERBERT SPENCER
Re-designed BNSF Layout
Still looking for any input on my freight yard plan above, and, also, I asked this before, but never got an answer:
I do have one question related to DCC. Can I just use spade terminal connectors on my buss so I can easily separate my 4 sections? If I have to move it, I'd rather just pull the plugs apart than have to cut and then re-solder later, especially if I'm just moving it from a train show and back.
Thanks,
Brian Czarnecki
Re-designed BNSF Layout
We'll, I got quite a bit done tonight. I picked away chunks of foam, and then re-glued them down to create contours along a few of my grades. I then used plaster cloth to cover the grade and contours along the back of the layout. Tomorrow I'll get out either the Sculpt-a-mold or plaster of paris to give it a finishing coat to fill in the gauze and give it more of a rocky look, and then I'll be ready to glue the cork roadbed down, after which I can put my first track down. I'll take some pictures and provide the link to Photobucket tomorrow.
Brian Czarnecki
"A man who has never gone to school may steal from a freight car, but if he has a university education, he may steal the whole railroad." Theodore Roosevelt
Pictures Updated
Here's some pictures of my progress. I didn't work on it as much as I had planned this weekend. Yesterday I went for a 300 mile ride on the bike from Southeast Wisconsin up to Northeast Wisconsin and back. Today was my wedding aniversary, so we all (wife, 3 daughters and dog) went to a one room schoolhouse museum/park about 100 miles away, but it wasn't open like it was supposed to be. 
Anyhow, I did get some plastering done. I found that for me, the best method is plaster cloth on the inclines. After it dries, I topped it with plaster (of paris) using a paintbrush to smooth it out. I then use sculpt-a-mold for the other foam areas, and to cover/shape the rock outcroppings. I tried using gauze and plaster of paris, and it did work, but the plaster cloth is a little easier less messy. I didn't work fast enough, so with more practice I could get better, but I think I have a system now anyways. Here's 8 pictures:
"A man who has never gone to school may steal from a freight car, but if he has a university education, he may steal the whole railroad." Theodore Roosevelt
Hey, Brian! Looking
Hey, Brian! Looking good! Nice progress!
I like the way your sub-roadbed "flows" into and around the curves. Very smooth!
That blue backdrop really did improve the looks of the layout. Evened out the lighting.
How come your daughter wasn't in any of the pictures? Were you working on the layout after her bedtime? LOL
Can't wait to see more!
Darrell, quiet...for now
Daughter
Yes, she was sleeping. I tried to get her to come down to have some fun with plaster, but she's wasn't interested. She already had her bath, and didn't want to get dirty. Was probaly a good thing because as I was mixing it I splattered it from head to gut. I had to take my shirt off and run it under water to get it out before it hardened. 
She really only wants to run trains. She doesn't really want to paint, plaster or build, although she does like to spread the glue once in a while. She comes down, sees what progress I've made, and then goes back up by Mama. Once I have track down, and can run a loco back and forth she'll come down more often.
Brian Czarnecki
"A man who has never gone to school may steal from a freight car, but if he has a university education, he may steal the whole railroad." Theodore Roosevelt
Shaping up really nice,
Shaping up really nice, Brian. Can't wait to see pics with some track laid. Nice work.
Jim
Mon, 07/23/2007 - 13:36
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Joined: 2007-01-09