CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale

TimWarris
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Hi All, This is my first post here, so let me introduce myself. My name is Tim Warris and until recently I was an HO modeler. I was building the Port Kelsey Ry until a recent move forced its abandonment....:( http://www.port-kelsey.com/?p=927 Since the layout I was working on is gone, I have the opportunity to start fresh with a project I have long wanted to tackle, the Central New Jersey Bronx Terminal. I did most of the design work for this layout several years ago but put it on the back burner until I had the time to focus on it properly. A few months ago I finally started construction on it. This terminal actually existed, as shown in the image above. The complexity of the trackwork is incredible, likely the most compact and complex in the world, in about an acre of land a complete yard, freight house and car float operation was all crammed. To accommodate the freight house on the land available it was built round, with two tracks surrounding it. I built all the trackwork in HO scale, as can be seen on my CNJ Bronx Terminal website (link below). Initially I had wanted to do this in N scale but didn't think it could be done so I decided to stick to HO scale. After completing most of the HO track in code 70 I thought I would try a section in N scale code 40. It was very tricky to get it done, but not impossible and I absolutely love the look of it in N scale, so I believe I have been converted... This section is the quad diamond that was in the centre of the yard. It seemed to work well in N scale so I have started another section, marked "Part 1" on the drawing above. This section is the three lapped turnout with a crazy frog in the middle, which I am working on today and hope to have some images of the progress on my site later today. Several large images available of this project on my site at the link below... http://www.bronx-terminal.com/ Cheers! Tim Warris


MooseID
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
That is a truly remarkable terminal. The track work is brilliantly engineered. It is a very ambitious project to model something like this. However, the samples of track you show here and on your web sight indicate that you are fully capable of doing a great job on it. Very nice hand layed track work. I hope that you are aware of the hazards of using code 40 track. It is truly better looking and more prototypical than the standards of Code 55 or 80. But, there is the problem of clearance for the wheel flanges on rolling stock and locomotives. You will need to install low profile wheels on the rolling stock and have the flanges on the locomotive wheels turned down. Of course, if you are modeling this terminal for a diarama and do not intend to run trains on it, the flange clearance is no problem. The wiring for operating trains and controlling turnouts is going to be very complex. So much so that I recommend investing in a Digital Command Control (DCC) system. If for any reason, to simlpify the wiring. In doing your research did you learn who the engineer was that designed the track plan? Have you been able to find the construction blue prints for the round freight house? During which years was this terminal in operation? Do you have any idea of how many freight cars could be handled on a daily basis through this terminal? I would think that a small switcher was used because of the tight spaces. Do you know which switchers were used? Any steam? I can mentally picture other means of moving empties around such as fork lifts, Hi-Railer trucks, rubber tired trucks, horses, man power, a stationary mule and cable system, etc. Good luck with the project. Please post more photos as you proceed.
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BryanC
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
Here is a link to another web page on the Bronx Terminal (extracted from another thread which discussed this terminal awhile ago): http://www.port-kelsey.com/?p=72 It has the same style as the others (above) so I suspect Tim had a hand in this one as well! :wink:
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Cheers!

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Jimmi
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
Tim, welcome to "N"ormal scale. Checked your site. Beautiful work so far. Someone on here had posted prototype pics and the track plan not too long ago. What caught my eye was that one of the diamonds leading to the roundhouse had a solid rail that was put into place by the crew to cross it, then removed for traffic on the other line. I think in that pic there was a CNJ boxcab crossing it. Can't wait to see your progress on this project. (Thanks, BrianC. I was looking for that.)
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NH2006
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
Wow! Outstanding images too! Too bad that is basically impossible in Unitrack....one of the few drawbacks to it....wonder how I could modify to fit constraints like 69Z28 did.... Oddly enough I am selling two Atlas CNJ locos, one is a RS3 so would fit that tight track, check out the For Sale forum if you are interested in them. NH2006 - I sat on the edge of the Harlem River near that spot for several hours once upon a time....


TimWarris
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
Hi Guys, Thanks for the feedback! I have finished the next section of trackwork for the terminal build in N scale, the triple lapped turnout that once led into the engine house, here are a couple of images.... I decided to use code 40 rail as it is actually easier to use when building this kind of trackwork. I am not worried about flange clearances as rail soldered to PC board ties does not have the interference issues of most RTR type track as there is no moulded on spike detail to hit the flanges. This will likely be wired using straight DC instead of DCC as there will only ever be one engine operating here, like the prototype, and therefore the wiring will be pretty straightforward (relatively) There is a very detailed background essay on my site about this terminal, its operation and lifespan that you might find interesting to read, along with several maps showing where it was once located. It can be found here... http://www.bronx-terminal.com/?cat=7 This should answer most questions about the terminals background. Cheers! Tim Warris


TimWarris
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
69Z28 wrote:
Hello Tim and welcome, The CNJ Bronx Terminal Facility is/was a great area to model and it's history and operations are very interesting. Last year I decided to add it to a layout I was planning. I don't have the skills to build the special trackage/switches. So I modified it to use only Atlas C80 sectional track and switches. Here's a picture of my plan. [Image removed from quote] Wish you luck with yours and looking forward to progress reports. See ya Ron
Ron, This is a great interpretation of the terminal! Should be a great project and able to take advantage of RTR trackwork. I'm sure several modelers would like to add this to their layout, its a way to allow someone to model this interesting operation without the extreme trackwork. Thanks for posting it. -Tim


MooseID
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
AHA! Tim Warris, ......Now it becomes apparent why your trackwork looks so good. ("Eesy for you, deeficult for me.") You are the world famous Tim Warris, creator and founder of Fast Tracks. After rereading my somewhat simplistic previous post I kind of feel a little foolish. Oh well, such is life. You mentioned home brewed stallmotor turnout machines in the initial post on this thread. I am very interested in that project. Would you consider writing and posting a 'How to" article for this forum? How about if I said....please, please, please,please, pritty-please?
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trainblue
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
Is that the NYC&HRR Third Ave. Bridge in the backgound? Very ambitious yet excellent work so far. As we're in Metro NYC area we model very urban scenery also and are working on NYC subway scene for National Convention this August. I would love to see a module of this also.


69Z28
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
Hello TimWarris, I visited your site, http://www.handlaidtrack.com/index.php It is neat. Especially the free videos showing in detail, how to build a turnout using one of your jigs. I believe an old fart like me with shaky hands could do that. Not real complicated stuff like the CNJ. But normal everyday N scale turnouts. See ya Ron
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dstuard
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
Very timely, considering the recent spread on the Harlem River Transfer terminal in MRP 2007. Great work! Wanna try Z? <G>
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Triplex
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
Quote:
I would think that a small switcher was used because of the tight spaces. Do you know which switchers were used? Any steam? I can mentally picture other means of moving empties around such as fork lifts, Hi-Railer trucks, rubber tired trucks, horses, man power, a stationary mule and cable system, etc.
I believe it was for this terminal specifically that CNJ bought a very early boxcab diesel.


Komata
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CNJ Bronx Terminal in N-scale
Tim I'm fascinated by your trurnouts (points) and the complexity of what you are doing in respect of the CNJ Bronx Terminal. Your 23rd May reply said that you are using PC-board ties for this project and that you solder the track to these. As I (and probably others) do not know much about this material, or why or how it can be used, I have a few questions about it, some of which may seem extremely simplistic, but . . . What exactly IS PC-board, and where does one buy it? Does it come in lengths, in slabs, or ready-cut and does it require the user to cut it for themselves? If so, what does one use - a craft-knife, hacksaw or . . . . I notice that every sleeper (tie) seems to have its centre 'painted' brown (at least I assume it's paint). Is this significant? Soldering of rails to sleepers? Is it not possible to use spikes or CA to secure the rail instead? If the rails ARE soldered, does this require any special techniques or tools? Why use PC-board sleepers in the first place? What is the advantage (because there must be an advantage for you to use them) that they offer, that 'conventional' plastic or wooden sleepers don't? As I said, possibly simplistic questions, but I trust that you will humour me and be able to provide simple answers. Finally, since the concept soldering of rail to anything, including this material, is something which is completely foreign to most modellers, (who tend to avoid things that will burn and melt them), would it be possible to do some sort of simple tutorial on the hows-and-whys that are involved in soldering rail to PC-board and also what making turnouts from this material involves? Thanks for keeping us abreast with your progress - you have certianly got our attention and we will be following your work with great interest. Komata "TVR - serving the Northern Taranaki . . . " (Bryan, Admin: If you think what I have asked is going too far away from the original subject of this thread, please transfer it somewhere else and under a new topic-heading if you think that this is warranted)
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Komata

"TVR - serving the Northern Taranaki . . . " ___________________________________________




thomsmith
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
And Tim, one other question; are you doing that work using just paper templates or did the fellas make you some sweet jigs for them? I've been looking at your product, but I'm not putting enough turnouts on my layout to justify the cost. Now if I knew of a local club who had them for loan, then I'd love to give them a try. Komata, follow the link to Tim's site and so many of your questions will be more than answered, he has an amazing site. Cheers and keep up the exceptional work, Thom
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Cheers, Thom


Bryan
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Re: CNJ Bronx Terminal in N-scale
Komata wrote:
...What exactly IS PC-board, and where does one buy it?
PC-Board (Printed Circuit Board) is essentially a copper clad sheet of fiberglass... In it's intended use, the sheet is masked where traces are needed, and the board is then etched to remove the unmasked copper, leaving the desired circuit-board... drill the holes, populate with components, and solder it up for the finished product... It can be obtained at places like Radio-Shack, or other (real) electronics suppliers. For our purposes, it is cut into strips, then to sleeper (tie) lengths (shears or guillotine work)... It is the chosen material because it comes in several thicknesses and the rails are easily fixed to it by soldering (then remain securely in place)... The "brown" you see, is the copper cladding... notice it is cut to avoid shorting the two rails.
--

Bryan




TimWarris
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Re: CNJ Bronx Terminal in N-scale
Komata wrote:
Tim Your 23rd May reply said that you are using PC-board ties for this project and that you solder the track to these. As I (and probably others) do not know much about this material, or why or how it can be used, I have a few questions about it, some of which may seem extremely simplistic, but . . . What exactly IS PC-board, and where does one buy it? PC board (printed circuit board) is primarily used for electronic components, those boards with all the goodies soldered to it inside electronic devices. Its a fibreglass substrate with a thin layer of copper laminated onto it that when cut into rail road tie size strips works great for soldering rail onto. Does it come in lengths, in slabs, or ready-cut and does it require the user to cut it for themselves? If so, what does one use - a craft-knife, hacksaw or . . . . PC board ties can be purchased pre-cut (from us at Fast Tracks) or in sheets from electronic suppliers. Cutting it can be difficult and very harsh on equipment. It can be cut on a table saw, but it is best sheared to size. We have a custom built feeder/shear press that we produce them on. I notice that every sleeper (tie) seems to have its centre 'painted' brown (at least I assume it's paint). Is this significant? As mentioned in the message above, the dark lines in the centre of the tie are gaps cut into the copper foil on the top of the PC board tie. This is very important and provides the necessary electrical isolation as the copper cladding on the top of the tie will cause a short if not gapped. Soldering of rails to sleepers? Is it not possible to use spikes or CA to secure the rail instead? I suppose the rail could be spiked (in pre-drilled holes) or glued, but that would defeat the purpose of using PC board ties in the first place. One of the many advantages of using PC board ties in trackwork is that rail soldered to the ties is very solid and will not move. PC board ties also allow trackwork to be built at the workbench, in comfort as opposed to leaning over the layout. If the rails ARE soldered, does this require any special techniques or tools? Just a standard 35W soldering iron. Why use PC-board sleepers in the first place? What is the advantage (because there must be an advantage for you to use them) that they offer, that 'conventional' plastic or wooden sleepers don't? See above.... As I said, possibly simplistic questions, but I trust that you will humour me and be able to provide simple answers. Finally, since the concept soldering of rail to anything, including this material, is something which is completely foreign to most modellers, (who tend to avoid things that will burn and melt them), would it be possible to do some sort of simple tutorial on the hows-and-whys that are involved in soldering rail to PC-board and also what making turnouts from this material involves? Lots of information here...http://www.handlaidtrack.com/documents.php Thanks for keeping us abreast with your progress - you have certianly got our attention and we will be following your work with great interest. Komata
Hope you find this helpful! Tim


benw
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale
PC board ties are also available from Clover House http://www.cloverhouse.com/ Ben


Jacko-Pat
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Truly amazing!

Tim, that is the first time I have seen this structure. It's quite unusual in the way that cars circle around it. When you get it built, please show us what it looks like finished.

Jacko 

 




69Z28
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Re:CNJ Bronx Terminal in N scale

Hello Tim and welcome, The CNJ Bronx Terminal Facility is/was a great area to model and it's history and operations are very interesting. Last year I decided to add it to a layout I was planning. I don't have the skills to build the special trackage/switches. So I modified it to use only Atlas C80 sectional track and switches. Here's a picture of my plan.

[G2:53383]

Wish you luck with yours and looking forward to progress reports. See ya Ron


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Ya gots ta choose. Sometimes ya wins and sometimes ya lose.


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