Foam insulation board

acbdfaqoz548
acbdfaqoz548's picture
Posts: 207
Joined: 2004-09-22
No votes yet

Has anyone ever considered building most or all of their layout bench work out of extruded foam board?  I'm planning a small shelf layout that will rest on shelving brackets on a wall.  I figured that perhaps the cheapest and easiest route for me to take would be to build my entire bench work out of the foam.  I'm moving into my first apartment with my girlfriend and I'm sure as heck not going to have any serious power tools to work with, a dremel is about it.  So I'm figuring that the board idea might not be so bad.  It's light weight, portable if I move, will sit on shelving brackets so damage will be minimal, I can cut the board into any configuration with a knife instead of a circular saw, the pro's can probably go on for a while.  So what's the concensus?

 

-Joe 


--
Maine Central RR Company


Kashirigi
Kashirigi's picture
Posts: 112
Joined: 2008-01-04
nScale.net Site Supporter
I think it's too brittle

Foam is pretty brittle stuff. Unless you make it quite thick, it will be easily susceptible to breakage. It's also easily dented. If you're putting it on a shelf, I would recommend that it be at least 2" thick at the narrowest point and have a fascia made of foamcore or very thin MDF. Even then, I would be very concerned. Once the layout warps, it's all over.

If you're mostly concerned about making benchwork because you don't have the tools, consider buying prestretched studio canvases with 1 1/2" stretcher bars and removing the canvas. Add some precut MDF from the hardware store, and all you need for rigid benchwork is a screwdriver. Another option is buying cradled panels from the art supply store. Your size options will be more limited than surfacing it yourself, but it's done all in one go. A 36x48 inch panel will run you around 70 dollars, and you will have saved significant labour time on benchwork.

 


--
Japanese N-scale trains in a very tight space: http://yamanotesen.thruhere.net


MooseID
MooseID's picture
Posts: 818
Joined: 2006-11-05
nScale.net Forum ModeratornScale.net Site Supporter
Without some sort of.....

...rigid structure, the foam tends to flex easily.

I suggest that you support the foam with a 1 by 2 open framework to add more rigidity to the foam. Make the frame with a front runner, a back runner, and cross braces at 16 inch centers.  The framework can be placed on the shelf brackets in short ( 2' to 6') modules that can be screwed together. Use screws and wood glue for the basic construction of each module. Make sure that the frames are perfectly square. The foam then should be bonded to the framework. Adhesive caulk works well for the bonding. 

 To make the task easier purchase a pair of the Japanese style hand saws found in most of the 'big box' hardware/lumber stores. One is for general cutting and has a single edge cutting blade.  The other has two cutting edges and is for smoother cuts such as trim and mouldings, and for joinery like dovetails. These saws cut on the pull stroke, rather than the push stroke usually associated with western culture saws. That makes them easier to use and control and less fatigueing.  They are very sharp and hold their cutting edges well. They cut very fast. Usually only two to three strokes are enough to go through 1 by 2's.  Use a square to mark your cuts so that the ends will fit tight.  (They are also very quiet so the neighbors wont complain.)

Another point to ponder......

Shelf layouts depend on the walls and corners of the room to be straight and square. Don't count on it.  You may have to alter the framework a bit to accommodate sloppy construction of the room.

Moose

 


--
 


Michael
Michael's picture
Posts: 514
Joined: 2007-09-04
nScale.net Site Supporter
I have every intention on

I have every intention on building the benchwork for my new layout almost completely with foam - less a 1x2 frame on 16" centres (exactly like moose suggested - wisdom he's shared in a few similar threads)  and then sheathed with 1" foam - LAMIATED.  I will add screw blocks for fascia etc.

Kashirigi's suggestion on using painting stretchers is really clever.  I wouldn't be prepared to rip apart a gallery style canvas just for the wood, but art stores do sell the loose stretchers in 2" incremental lengths.





Kashirigi
Kashirigi's picture
Posts: 112
Joined: 2008-01-04
nScale.net Site Supporter
Cradled panels are better
Cradled panels are even better than gallery canvas. I would have done it that way had it come in the size I wanted. They're already nicely finished!
--
Japanese N-scale trains in a very tight space: http://yamanotesen.thruhere.net


acbdfaqoz548
acbdfaqoz548's picture
Posts: 207
Joined: 2004-09-22
I didn't know that foam

I didn't know that foam will warp.  I recently built a large rock out of several layers of the stuff for a film I did.  It had to support a 6 foot 7inch tall, 180 pound man and the stuff held up very well for several days and takes.  This is why I figured that if I built it up about 6 inches and placed it onto shelving brackets it could hold up quite well.  I'm also very shaky with wooden bench work so this was my way of avoiding that.  The layout will be approx. 7 feet by 2 feet and at about eye level from the floor. 

I have to agree with Moose though that rooms in apartments do tend to be poorly assembled.  I'll have to take that into consideration.

-Joe 


--
Maine Central RR Company


dgwinup
dgwinup's picture
Posts: 428
Joined: 2005-07-05
nScale.net Site Supporter
For a shelf layout the size

For a shelf layout the size you are considering, foam would be a good choice.  2" thick blue or pink foam will sag if not adequately supported.  A second layer of 2"foam will add considerable strength but still may sag over time.

If you're mounting the layout on shelf brackets, you can support the foam with 1x2's laid on the brackets.  You can also laminate 1x2's or decorative molding to the sides of the foam.  These will provide enough strength to prevent sagging if your shelf brackets are 16" to 24" apart.

I used foam in 1" and 2" thicknesses to build a small layout and an addition.  I used 1x2 L-girders as support under the layout.  The girders rest on top of an old kitchen table and provide support for the parts of the layout that overhang the table.

Here is a photo of one end of my layout:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a392/dgwinup/layoutpics007.jpg

There are several layers here.  The bottom layer (blue) is the sub-base that rests on the girders.  The next layer (1" thick) is a spacer layer that allowed me to run wires underneath the main level layer on top of it.  The upper layer is a higher elevation of the scenery.  You'll note that the upper layer has a slit cut into it.  This was done to correct a dip in the track.  The slit was stuffed with pieces of cork roadbed until the dip in the track was straightened out.

Foam is easy to work with using simple tools.  Just don't use any petroleum-based products (paint, glue, etc.) on it unless you want to model craters!  LOL

Foam has gotten a bad rap in terms of strength.  No, you can't walk on it, but with minimal support, it works just fine and saves an incredible amount of weight!

Give it a shot and post pictures of your success!

Darrell, quiet...for now




Michael
Michael's picture
Posts: 514
Joined: 2007-09-04
nScale.net Site Supporter
I was thinking about this

I was thinking about this thread while buying 'my' foam this evening and I came across a few things that might help.  The discussion has largely focused on how to adequetly support the foam in fear of it sagging.  In the insulation section they sell firring strips (C channel) intended to be set into grooves on the 2" thick pink stuff, however you could slip these strips around the sides of some 1.5" thick foam to create a very rigid edge that would undoubtedly handle any stresses placed on the foam.  Likewise, the drywall section has similar 2" C-channels intended for windows that could also work. 

Much like the j-moulding used on drywall. 




acbdfaqoz548
acbdfaqoz548's picture
Posts: 207
Joined: 2004-09-22
I'm not all that worried

I'm not all that worried about how strong the stuff is going to be.  I'm not going to be standing on it so it doesn't need that kind of support and there wont be anything overly heavy on it.  N scale is quite light weight.  My primary concern is with it sagging.  Will it definetly sag if it's built up 6 inches or so?

 

-Joe 


--
Maine Central RR Company


Michael
Michael's picture
Posts: 514
Joined: 2007-09-04
nScale.net Site Supporter
acbdfaqoz548 wrote:I'm not
acbdfaqoz548 wrote:

I'm not all that worried about how strong the stuff is going to be. I'm not going to be standing on it so it doesn't need that kind of support and there wont be anything overly heavy on it. N scale is quite light weight. My primary concern is with it sagging. Will it definetly sag if it's built up 6 inches or so?-Joe

If it's laminated to 6" thick (Surprised)and sitting on shelf brackets I'm going all but guarantee it won't sag.  I'm not speaking from experience within the hobby - this is experience gained building/renovating houses.  I think you will have more then adequate support!

As for the firring strips I mentioned, I was imagining that these would allow for thinner benchwork with no fear of sagging.

Heck, I think 4" would be plenty strong - with shelf brackets every 12", rock solid.

Michael
www.modelrailroader.ca




acbdfaqoz548
acbdfaqoz548's picture
Posts: 207
Joined: 2004-09-22
That's exactly what I

That's exactly what I figured.  Foam is pretty strong and if it's that close together it should hold up quite well as long as no one leans on it.  

-Joe 


--
Maine Central RR Company


Zandoz
Zandoz's picture
Posts: 59
Joined: 2007-02-04
16" centers more likely than 12"....

Chances are, your wall studs will be 16" on center, so that will be the spacing of your brackets.   But at 3 layers of 2" (I'd even second the 2 layer opinion), it should be more than adequate, as long as the layers are truly laminated...in other words adhesive bonding all or nearly all of the mating surfaces...spot gluing will not be nearly as strong.  

A while back I played with the idea of building a 42"x76" semi-portable table top layout entirely out of 2" foam.   At that size, with one uncut slab of foam as a base, and a 2nd layer cut for a river and an underpass, it was almost strong enough.  That combination, with my track pinned down and a few tools on it for simulate weight, only sagged slightly over the 76" span, when lifted from the ends...not enough that it was in danger of breaking, but enough to cause scenery and track problems.  I suspect that a 2nd uncut slab of 2" foam properly laminated, with a 1X perimeter glued around the edges, would have been sufficient.  Since height was an issue for me, I opted for a hollow core door, with 2" of cut-into foam on top, instead of adding another layer.




Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

Powered by Drupal - Modified by Todd Vaules