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StarckTruth
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Location(s)

Montreal, QC, H2K
Canada
See map: Google Maps

 

Hey guys!

Well, it's funny what can bring on inspiration. I have a closet door that has been annoying me to NO END for the past few years, falling off its track and hinges and generally making a PITA of itself. But I recently decided I'd had quite enough of this, thanks, and I tore that door right off while I was remodeling the front room in my condo. I was getting ready to heave it out into the snow, and good riddance, when it occurred to me that it was strong and light and a very nice size for a small N scale layout. So I only threw half of it in the snow (I can't deprive myself of *all* of my petty satisfaction, now, can I?) and I chucked the other half into my office and there I fired up QCad.

Well! Let me tell you, I'm pleased with the outcome. By tacking on a couple of 10" deep extensions I managed to fit an elegant little dogbone loop on there with 9"R mainline curves and about 3.5% grades — far from prototypical, but not hideously steep or tight; and there are the two lovely sweeping bends along the front edge of the layout. Flex-track all the way of course. Once I'd gotten the main loop set up (shown in double lines 9mm apart) I added a reversing cutoff along the back edge. There is also an economic raison d'etre present in the form of a mine and a quay for barges to haul off the ore; the switchback and siding are shown as single lines. The mine siding, as drawn, gets really quite tight — about 5.5"R at the tightest — but since I have almost exclusively stubby little ore cars that should not be a show-stopper, and I might revise the exact trajectory of that siding.

The real centrepiece of the layout will be the trestle, whose support trusses are approximately indicated in bright yellow on the scenicked plan. About 50' high and 215' long, it features a graceful curve and an overpass over a line only 10 degrees away from the straight section. It will be a challenging build, but after assembling a few simpler bridges late last year, I feel confident I can handle it. It'll be a real showpiece, and it's ideally placed right in the centre by the lake. It'll be built out of basswood and hardwood dowel, stained with Varathane stain mixed with India ink to emulate creosote.

For the scenery I was planning on extruded foam, spackle, water-based paint and India ink plus the usual scenicking accessories. For the buildings I was planning on paper, specifically drafting them in QCad and detailing in Photoshop, then having high-end inkjet prints made and using cardstock backing for structural integrity. Windows will be made with overhead transparencies including mullion detail, and I may include lighting and interior detailing too. For the quay and the water tower I'll build the open structures from basswood.

Last, the motive power. I really really love steam engines, so I'll probably pick up an 0-4-0 or 0-6-0 (at most) switcher. I'm not planning on DCC, at least not to start; I wn't be double-heading or doing anything fancy and I can always upgrade later. Additionally, I like mucking around with electronics and I may build my own microcontroller-driven power pack based around a BASICstamp or Propeller CPU. That way I can literally tell it to take the switchback route to the mine, fill up the cars and take the gentle route to the quay (or whatever) and just watch it go.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I'd love to hear your input.

Cheers!

Murray

[Mod note: Moved to a more appropriate forum - BDC] [ Sorry, that was a cheesy nooB move *blush* -M. ]




ScottL
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Joined: 2006-10-12
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Nice plan

I like this a lot and your presentation is great.  You may hear concerns about 3.5% grades, but I think they work fine with short trains, especially what you are describing.

 One thing I caught is that track at the back-centre results in not one, but two reverse loops.  If you are up on the wiring, it is not a problem, but if you hadn't realized it, it might be something to think about.  It is a nice option to have for varied operations.

Cheers,

ScottL




StarckTruth
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Posts: 23
Joined: 2007-12-20
Thanks, Scott. This is

Thanks, Scott. This is probably the hundredth layout I've designed over the years, but it's the first one I think I'll take a serious stab at building since, oh, the late 1980s or so!

I am familiar with the electrical complexity of reversing loops, but I agree it's a good idea to mention those issues before a nooB explodes their power pack! I started playing with trains 30 years ago, and they were responsible for all that I originally learned about electricity. But it's definitely better safe than sorry, so I appreciate the comment.

I'm planning on automating a lot of the operational details, probably with a Parallax Propeller microcontroller.  By cleverly hiding infrared proximity sensors in the scenery, it will be possible to handle the polarity switching and those messy details in a hands-off fashion. The Propeller is neat because it's got eight independent execution cores — it can walk and chew gum with a vengeance!

The ucontroller is also a USB-capable device, so if I switch to DCC down the road I can maintain the CPU for auxiliary functions like lighting, and offload the train operation to JMRI or an equivalent. It could also handle the detection circuitry and pass it back to the Java-running machine through USB.

Today I was working on the structural details of the trestle underpass. It's a devilishly tricky structure, being a curved bridge with a nearly-parallel underpassing mainline, but I think I've got the structure worked out in a prototypically-feasible way. I'm going to start drafting it up tonight, and I'll post plans when I have them done. 




railohio
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Doesn't seem like there's

Doesn't seem like there's much opportunity for operation in that plan so I hope you like watching trains go in circles. As for the motive power, small steam engines are notoriously cantankerous. I'd suggest picking up a diesel for your first engine and adding steam to the fleet later.

 ~BS


--
mmmmm pie!



ScottL
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Neat control system

That is a neat controller- I look forward to seeing more about how you will do that.

Cheers,

Scott




Packers_1
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Posts: 61
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Seems like a great plan. Go
Seems like a great plan. Go for it.
--

 You can't please everyone, SO QUIT TRYING. photobucket albulm: www.packers1.tk




pcarrell
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Posts: 444
Joined: 2006-12-27
Overall I think it'll work

Overall I think it'll work fine for your purposes, but you need to keep in mind some of the things said. 

Small steam in N scale are not good pullers, trust me.  My own layout is loaded with them on my shortline and it doesn't take a lot to bog them down.  I have an old 0-4-0 and a 2-6-2 (the old Bachmann thats really just an 0-6-0 with lead and trailing trucks tacked on) and on a 3.5% grade I'd be pushing it to get more then a couple 2 or 3 good rolling cars up at a time without some wheel slippage.  On the other hand, if you really want steam, one of the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0's will do a lot better.  And better yet would be the diesel already mentioned.  They're basically a giant lead weight with wheels, so they pull well.

I'd also think about adding a siding or two, and a track that leads towards the edge for future expantion (call it an interchange track for now).  That future expantion could be more layout, or just some staging.

Just my thoughts.......




BryanC
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Hi Murray, a word on

Hi Murray, a word on images, if I may. I have noticed that, when inserting images, you seem to insert an Image separately and then include it in you post! This way the image appears twice and anyone looking at just the Image is not sure what it is until they find your post! Also, the images are a little large (but not excessive) for being included in a post.

A much better approach is to insert an image into your album and then add it to your post from there. The system will automatically create a thumbnail for you (albeit a square one). You already have a gallery so just add to it!

if you are not sure about to do this, please read Adding Images to Posts, Blog Entries, Articles, etc. if, after reading it, you have any questions please ask away! You, and anyone else for that matter, can either respond here or PM me.


--

Cheers!

Bryan C
Alligator Lines "The Eclectic Line of the South"

http://ALines.home.att.net




StarckTruth
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Posts: 23
Joined: 2007-12-20
Trestle planning is underway.....

Here's an overview of the trestle. There are corections to be made and a few clearance tweaks but it should be basically good; probably just a matter of eliminating some impinging diagonal members. (The first plans I drew of the support piers had the underpass too narrow and the trains would have gotten stuck on almost every post. D'oh!) There is a lot of detail not shown, like the fairly intricate stringer work; distributing the load over that acutely angled mainline would have been a real challenge in a prototypical setting, where structural integrity actually counts!

RailOhio, I agree there is not a yard nor a thousand switches. That's mainly budgetary. :-) But I disagree there's not much operations capability; in seven feet by two I have a continuous loop, TWO reversing loops, a switchback and a mine. Since one of my stated goals is to achieve automated operation driven by a computer or microcontroller, that's plenty complicated for now.

Plus, I enjoy scenicking, and covering that entire mountain with trees will keep me busy for QUITE some time. Maybe I should have a great swathe of clear-cutting (from building the trestle?) which will account for the missing trees for a few years while I fill it in.....

Thanks again for your comments, Scott. I will indeed keep you posted.




StarckTruth
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Posts: 23
Joined: 2007-12-20
Thanks Bryan!

Ahhh, that's much better with the images. Thanks for the tip!

 I feel especially embarassed, since I know a bit about Drupal programming. Perhaps that was actually a handicap here; I knew enough to get in trouble. Surprised

 But I would like to express my admiration; this is a very nicely done site.




StarckTruth
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Posts: 23
Joined: 2007-12-20
Philip, thanks to you too

Those are good points you make. I was really only planning quite short trains anyhow, so even a little 0-4-0 might do to start. I suppose my main concern was not so much the steep grades as the tight turns. Would a 2-8-0 (which was you point out would be better on the grades) handle 11" curves happily?

 My love of steam is all about the dance. I really dig the way the complex linkages beside the wheels spin around; diesels are, well, kind of bricklike in comparison.

As for expansion, I may fit in a switch inside the tunnel, and excavate an exit path. I'm planning on making the extruded foam over the tunnel removable anyhow, for obvious reasons, and a future staging track is a good idea. It's easier to plan now than tear apart later! 




BryanC
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I believe a 2-8-0 will work

I believe a 2-8-0 will work with 11" curves very well!

Since you are obviously very steam oriented, how about trying to squeeze in a small steam servicing area? A favorite of mine, but it would seem logical to have somewhere for the steamers to go and get refueled!

Just a thought (as Komata would say).


--

Cheers!

Bryan C
Alligator Lines "The Eclectic Line of the South"

http://ALines.home.att.net




pcarrell
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Posts: 444
Joined: 2006-12-27
Oh yeah, the Bachmann

Oh yeah, the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0 would be just fine on an 11"r curve.  I wouldn't go much over that size loco though.  A bigger loco might make it through the curve, but it'll look goofy doing it.

Besides the Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0, the Athearn 2-8-0 is an excellent loco as well.  It's of an 1890's design, so it would be quite at home on a layout into the 1920's, while the Bachmann loco is a USRA design and so it would be good a timeframe from about WW1 on.  Both loco's are very good runners and would be fine on your curves.  With htese choices you'll have some wiggle room in your timeframe.  You could even get one of each and model the early 1920's!




StarckTruth
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Posts: 23
Joined: 2007-12-20
2-8-0 pointers: thanks!

I'll check into those. I can also rework the mine.

I do in fact have a fueling station at the top of the trestle, on the side opposite the mine; and I was thinking of putting one on the lower track as well, since it looks like a junction between two mainlines in the centre. I wouldn't be surprised if you missed it, it's only a grey circle.

For the structures I was planning on using the amazing advances in inkjet printing, and printing the artwork for most or all of the structures in one go on a high end plotter in 6 or 8 colours. Do you guys have suggestions there for realism? I was planning on dull varnish over the completed exteriors, maybe even the windows so they look a bit dirty; and it's occurred to me that 600-grit wet/dry sandpaper would make fantastic tarpaper. Is this common practice these days? Should weathering be added to the artwork, or the final piece? Any suggestions?

For the wood I was planning on basswood and hardwood dowel, and possibly even some 1/64" plywood I can get from my local hobby store. I have some nice cherry Varathane stain which I was going to mix with some India ink to look like creosote. Does this work?

 Thanks for the tips, everyone. It's nice to get some voices of experience.




StarckTruth
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Posts: 23
Joined: 2007-12-20
Ohhhhhhhhhh, the Consolidation is GORGEOUS!

OKAY, I AM SOLD ON THAT CONCEPT!

Bachmann Spectrum 2-8-0

That baby would look beautiful pulling anything! And there's space inside the tender for ballast, if need be. Or DCC later, if not.

When I was about nine I had the chance to actually drive a steam locomotive. Fortunately my grandfather was there, as I was strong enough to open the throttle but not strong enough to close it. 




StarckTruth
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Posts: 23
Joined: 2007-12-20
Whoa, reread those plans before posting!
Whoops! I just reexamined my track plans and I realized the main line is not 11" radius, it's 9"! Will a Consolidation still be all right with those curves, or would a 6-wheeler be more comfortable?


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