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Thread: Replacing overly complex drive shaft with vinyl tubing

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    Default Replacing overly complex drive shaft with vinyl tubing

    I bought a couple of Bachmann Metroliner units -- I know, I know -- if you are a NIB Kato shopper and don't like to fix old engines move on

    Anyway, as mentioned on Spookshow (and likely everywhere that has seen these locos), they are noisy. Some of this is brass-on-brass gearing but some of it is likely because of the amazing number of separate plastic parts in the drive shaft (including a cup gear that rubs on the metal chassis).

    So I am thinking of replacing all this junk with some vinyl tubing (like what is used on the Life Like locos). However, it is a bit of a long span -- 1 3/8" more or less -- and I am worried about that tubing flopping around. Anyone have experience with this and/or what do you think?

    The tubing will be able to fit onto a pretty long 1/4" or so piece of drive shaft attached to the worm and a decent length piece by the motor (once I can pull the gear). If I need to, I could put a brass tube as a sheath around the vinyl tubing (or could put a piece or wire inside it).

    Here is what I am looking at:

    20170619_112107.jpg

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    If you do that, your going to loose the gear reduction that the cup gears provide.
    Rodney

    Here is my build of my n-scale railroad
    http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthr...-50-8-quot-%29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodsup9000 View Post
    If you do that, your going to loose the gear reduction that the cup gears provide.
    Hmm... very good point... thanks...

    I will look at trying the vinyl tube from cup gear to worm gear. Need to figure out how to keep the cup gear from rubbing on chassis then.

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    Oh, my, cup gears. And ironically enough, on something that actually did run 125mph. There's your noise. Same concept as in the first-run 4-8-4, and you had to wear hearing protection on that one. Same thing even with a better-made set of parts on the Rapido GP's, noisy cup gears. You can 'usually' get them to wear in quieter going one direction at the expense of a rock crusher sound in reverse. I spent hours tinkering with shim tolerances on Rapidos trying to quiet them down as even .010 in alignment made a heck of a difference. Hard to do when you can't see it easily.

    You may have quite the battle getting those pinion gears off the motor, and it will still be a three-pole motor.

    One of the smallest and most adaptable 5-poles out there is on the Kato 11-103 and 104 chassis. You'll pay in the $20's for the chassis and the motor, throw out the chassis, keep the wheels and the motor. It's a really nice and short five-pole motor, fits in about the same size spot, and reliable enough you can just glue it in there with Goo and forget about it. Any given five-pole will have better low speed torque and control.

    This is all there is to it. http://mati150.cocolog-nifty.com/pho...9/cimg3621.jpg


    If you're looking for some nice and adaptable universal shafts and couplings, Northwest Short Line sells universal parts and metal shafting, works very well, cut to length.

    Sooner or later the vynl will dry out or crack. Not a fan.

    There might be a Tomytec chassis out there that would work under that shell, too, wouldn't pay much more than $30 for it from Plaza Japan, you need to know the wheelbase of the trucks in MM. Sideframes come off so you could glue on the metroliner ones. Good gears and drive, but the motors are pretty much the same ones you'll find on a low-end Bachmann and 3-pole, OK but not great. Because the Tomytec chassis are plastic, you can hack them up to fit a lot of different situations that you couldn't with a metal frame, including changing the driveshaft length with K&S tubing splices.
    Randgust N scale kits web page at www.randgust.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by randgust View Post
    Kato 11-103 and 104 chassis. You'll pay in the $20's for the chassis
    Randy,

    Where do you get yours from. I look at a few places and couldn't find any in stock.
    Thanks
    Rodney

    Here is my build of my n-scale railroad
    http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthr...-50-8-quot-%29

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    I'm a big fan of the Plaza Japan ebay store. It's Japan direct, you use Paypal, shipping charges reasonable if not necessarily how long it takes to come.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kato-11-103-...item5447a76cd3

    I've been ordering from them ever since Walthers dropped the chassis many years ago.

    The other place to check is N scale supply, but they appear to be sold out. Kato changed their Kato USA wholesaler policy so that it was just about impossible for anybody to take a markup on this stuff as a US dealer, that's what happened here to make them easily available in Japan and nonexistent here.
    Randgust N scale kits web page at www.randgust.com

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    I'm not a big fan of Plaza Japan. They charged me full individual shipping for multiple items purchased at the same time.

    My pusher for all things Japanese is

    Not only can you buy full power unit(chassis) they sell all kinds of parts.

    Remember the Japanese invented batch production. Items sell out often. With popular items like the Kato Pocket chassis, it will just be a couple of months before the next bunch come out.

    No matter who in Japan you buy from, don't buy stuff one item at a time. Purchase multiple items, that way shipping per item is less. Also there are two forms of air mail. EMS and SAL. E​xpress Mail Service is very fast and extremely well tracked. I've gotte stuff in five days from Tokyo to The Atlanta suburbs, three days sitting in NYC customs. Speed cost money, opt for SAL. While it is more like ordinary mail without tracking and will arrive in less than two weeks, sometimes longer, it is much cheaper. SAL packages are placed on airplanes as space is available, so it takes longer.

    Much easier to find than vinyl tubing is model fuel line. Any hobby shop selling R/C aircraft or vehicles sells it for "gas" powered engines. It comes in many diameters, inside and out.

    While RandGust may not like it for longevity, it has another fault. It robs power. It steals torque from the motor as it twists before releasing power. Also some lubricants will get between the steel shafts and the tubing and all contact is lost. Any jamming may also destroy the contact.

    There is a simpler way to fix any rubbing parts.
    When a fixed part rubs against a moving one, you have two simple solutions. One lubricant. Two remove the offending material from the less important part. A couple of strokes with a file or sandpaper,
    Use what you know about the world to model…
    Learn from modeling what you don't know about the real world.



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    Silicone tubing works much better than vinyl. Some of my Atlas/Rivarossi steamers were really noisy so I replaced the weird "universal joint" with those wedge-shaped appurtenances on them with silicone tubing and they are now very quiet.

    Why Rivarossi used that goofy set-up is a mystery. They should have just used joints with straight-sided innards.

    Doug
    Atlas First Generation Motive Power and Treble-O-Lectric. Click on the link:
    www.irwinsjournal.com/a1g/a1glocos/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Gosha View Post
    Silicone tubing works much better than vinyl. Some of my Atlas/Rivarossi steamers were really noisy so I replaced the weird "universal joint" with those wedge-shaped appurtenances on them with silicone tubing and they are now very quiet.... Doug
    Thanks Doug -- I actually should have said silicone -- that is actually what I have - 1 mm silicone tubing. Biggest issue is the cup gear reduction which I can't just ignore. Anyway, need to give it a bit more thought and experiment a bit.

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