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Thread: Heavy Weight Passenger Car question ...

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    testors ELO can cause the plastic to become brittle. I'd stick to 91% alcohol

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    @cpnsoo, How long are you soaking the model?

    I have stripped some of my streetcars multiple times without any problems. A couple times within a weekend. I really suck at painting. The kitbashed bodies originate from Bachmann. Perhaps, the model(s) you stripped were a different plastic? Other than Mehano, I cannot imagine a company using a lower grade material.

    - - - Updated - - -
    @cpnsoo, How long are you soaking the model?

    I have stripped some of my streetcars multiple times without any problems. A couple times within a weekend. I really suck at painting. The kitbashed bodies originate from Bachmann. Perhaps, the model(s) you stripped were a different plastic? Other than Mehano, I cannot imagine a company using a lower grade material.
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    I wouldn't soak anything in ELO. I tried scrubbing a Kato shell with it, I may have had some on the inside of the shell while I was at it, with it upside down. Anyway the shell cracked at the upper ridge. With alcohol you can soak as long as you want.The paint on early Kato shells is pretty tough and may require repeated soaking to get them clean. Whereas an Atlas model strips clean real fast. I've never tried Microtrains, but they must fall somewhere in between. I've only work with Kato and Atlas models. Alcohol also works better for removing lettering off of Kato corrugated cars. Just a wet Q tip rubs the lettering off, leaving the silver paint untouched. ELO may cut into areas if it sits too long trying to remove the lettering. At this point I'm all done with ELO and would never go back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoNW View Post
    From what I understand, the MT cars are just repops of a much older mold. So, you are just spending extra for trucks with knuckle couplers and a name.
    If I may sidetrack the thread a moment, is this true? The MTL car do tend to cost more. So, if a cheaper but identical model is available and only needs a coupler upgrade, I am for that. But looking at photos and I don't see similarities between MTL and Rivarossi/Atlas. Anybody know more about this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jugtown Modeler View Post
    If I may sidetrack the thread a moment, is this true? The MTL car do tend to cost more. So, if a cheaper but identical model is available and only needs a coupler upgrade, I am for that. But looking at photos and I don't see similarities between MTL and Rivarossi/Atlas. Anybody know more about this?
    That would be news to me. AFAIK, all of MTL's heavyweights are relatively new models and not available from anyone else.

    -Mark

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    It was something I read in an early review. I don't recall the brand, but it was not the Rivarossi cars. It may have been only one or two body styles. It was somebody similar in size to Rowa. Remember, there used to be a lot more manufacturers well into the 80s. MT tooled new molds for the rest of the line.

    But it would not be unusual for one company to sell another's products. Look at the base of many structures, the name is not the one on the box. Some molds have seen multiple brands. Heck, the new Kato Metra station was made in Europe for them.
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    There haven't been all that many product lines of North American heavyweight cars in N scale - the MTL cars (which came out starting circa 2009), the Bachmann "shorties", the Lima/Model Power PRR cars, the Rivarossi/Atlas/Con-Cor ATSF/Pullman cars, the PRB brass cars, and the Wheels of Time baggage/horse cars. And that's it.

    I think whoever wrote that review didn't know what they were talking about. Or perhaps you're misremembering it?

    -Mark

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoNW View Post
    It was something I read in an early review. I don't recall the brand, but it was not the Rivarossi cars. It may have been only one or two body styles. It was somebody similar in size to Rowa. Remember, there used to be a lot more manufacturers well into the 80s. MT tooled new molds for the rest of the line.
    You are going to need to come up with a source to back up that claim.

    The MTL cars are not constructed like any other n-scale passenger car I have ever seen.

    As far as being similar to other cars, the MTL cars and the Rivarossi cars are both Pullman 12-1 sleepers, but they are different Pullman plans. The prorotype for the Rivarossi car is at least 10 years older than the one for the MTL car. The other cars are different than anything else.

    But it would not be unusual for one company to sell another's products. Look at the base of many structures, the name is not the one on the box. Some molds have seen multiple brands. Heck, the new Kato Metra station was made in Europe for them.
    That is true. Even Microtrains has done this ( before MTL made locomotives, thier trainsets all included other manufactures locomotives )

    Paul

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    The MTL car do tend to cost more... But looking at photos and I don't see similarities between MTL and Rivarossi/Atlas.
    MTL's cars, for the money, are the best that you can buy and well worth the investment compared to older models. The detail is considerably better and they do not cost all that much, if you shop around. As for "similarities" only the Rivarossi paired-window coach has a comparable model to that offered by MT, both being based on the same B&O prototype. Pretty much everything else MT has offered are based on different prototypes than what previously was available so there really is no other "similarities" other than general types of cars, and MT has even done some that Rivarossi never considered.
    jerry
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    Being a modern modeler, the heavyweights haven't been a deep interest for me. So I cannot remember the article, most likely it was here or Trainboard.

    When I got serious about N Scale, all the passenger cars I could find painted in C&NW yellow and green were Rivarossi heavyweights. It was annoying. It was almost a year before I found the Arnold/Rapido bi-levels another few months before I found ConCor's version. Wheels of Time really disappointed me with theirs.
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    Update:

    My Micro Trains arrived this morning, as did the Bachmann K4 Pacific, and they look excellent.







    They will stay in their boxes until I am ready for them
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"

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    Have been doing some "revamping" of the Undec Sleeper - this is what has been done thus far:

    Priming the Interior and Exterior:



    First color coat on Interior and Exterior:




    How it should look when finished:


    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"

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    Should have said this ... I used 91% Alcohol to do the striping and it worked very well.
    Cheers Tony

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    Well,

    This is how it turned out so far:





    Believe it or not but the dark color IS blue and the yellowy looking color is actually an aged white with a slight green tint. I haven't done the striping yet as I am not sure if I am game enough to try them. I think it has turned out fairly well, especially as it is my first attempt at painting any type of rolling stock in any scale, so I am apprehensive about screwing it up.

    Will appreciate an comments just be honest though please. If you think it is crap, then say so and why it is. To me, that is how you learn and improve.
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"

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    This is the other side of the car with the white stripes:



    Don't know which of the two is better looking?
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"

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    Either one is very good work if it easier I would go for the 1'st one. Less is more if you know what I mean. Well done.

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    I see a dark blue and cream car. Any green tint you see, is a result from the blue and white interacting. Doing the cream over a white primer then painting the blue will eliminate the color shift. But the masking is more difficult. The ends of the cars would just be blue.

    White stripes outlining a cream area is a bad color combination. The gold stripes you originally designed look much better. The Duluxe Gold contrasts with both the cream and the blue. Gold leaf works just as well. But the real purpose of any outline striping is to cover the bad edges where the two colors meet. They cover the rough edge that happens when masking areas where things pop the edges of the tape. Your edges are very clean so you really don't need the striping. The thickness of the lines encroach on your lettering(slightly crooked).

    If you want striping to separate the blue and cream, don't paint them. It is extremely tough to mask the tiny lines that look right. Brush painting should only be done if you are extremely patient or can stop your heart. Mine keeps bouncing the brush.

    Use a decal instead. MicroScale and others offer striping in many thicknesses and colors, or full sheets of color so you can cut your own. Custom color decals can be made by painting a clear or white blank decal sheet. Use a oil based paints as water base ones can lessen the decal from the backing. Two #11 Xacto blades bolted together make a great stripe cutter. Washers or thin sheet metal shims can be inserted between the blades to space them.

    The vertical outlines are just bad. They break up the continuity of the color going from car to car. If you look at lots of paint schemes, ones with vertical elements of any kind can create visual confusion. As much as I love this paint scheme...

    It only works for the married pairs. When multiple pairs are coupled together for rush hour, the pattern looks like wide W's.
    After the Bicentennial, the paint was revised eliminating the swoop and shrinking the stripes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotian_Huntress View Post
    Either one is very good work if it easier I would go for the 1'st one. Less is more if you know what I mean. Well done.
    Quote Originally Posted by ChicagoNW View Post
    I see a dark blue and cream car. Any green tint you see, is a result from the blue and white interacting. Doing the cream over a white primer then painting the blue will eliminate the color shift. But the masking is more difficult. The ends of the cars would just be blue.

    White stripes outlining a cream area is a bad color combination. The gold stripes you originally designed look much better. The Duluxe Gold contrasts with both the cream and the blue. Gold leaf works just as well. But the real purpose of any outline striping is to cover the bad edges where the two colors meet. They cover the rough edge that happens when masking areas where things pop the edges of the tape. Your edges are very clean so you really don't need the striping. The thickness of the lines encroach on your lettering(slightly crooked).

    If you want striping to separate the blue and cream, don't paint them. It is extremely tough to mask the tiny lines that look right. Brush painting should only be done if you are extremely patient or can stop your heart. Mine keeps bouncing the brush.

    Use a decal instead. MicroScale and others offer striping in many thicknesses and colors, or full sheets of color so you can cut your own. Custom color decals can be made by painting a clear or white blank decal sheet. Use a oil based paints as water base ones can lessen the decal from the backing. Two #11 Xacto blades bolted together make a great stripe cutter. Washers or thin sheet metal shims can be inserted between the blades to space them.

    The vertical outlines are just bad. They break up the continuity of the color going from car to car. If you look at lots of paint schemes, ones with vertical elements of any kind can create visual confusion. As much as I love this paint scheme...
    http://www.nscale.net/forums/attachm...5&d=1432011308
    It only works for the married pairs. When multiple pairs are coupled together for rush hour, the pattern looks like wide W's.
    After the Bicentennial, the paint was revised eliminating the swoop and shrinking the stripes.
    I agree with everything you guys have said, 100%!

    After I completed the white stripes last night I sat back and looked at the end result. My first thought was that I was trying to do "too much" and have it look right on such a small area. Essentially, I was getting my ambitions confused (very confused) with my abilities. The second thought is in line with what ScotianHuntress said - there are too many colors being used.

    Keeping the above in mind, my aim was to create a scheme that gave the cars a luxury look and I failed to achieve that for all the reasons you guys have pointed out. As such, I am now inclined to strip the thing back to nothing and paint it one solid color such as the blue. Doing that will ensure that all 6 cars will be identicle, as they should be, and will be able to be done all at once. It will mean that I will not end up trying to replicate the scheme from one car to the next.

    If I do go the one color route (and probably will) I will be ordering decals for the striping. Trying to paint them was a nightmare and wasn't all that successful. I did buy 2 sets of Microscale "Empire Builder" stripes, thinking that they were white and gold but discovered they were grey and gold, to discover they were about an inch too short to cover the width of the car.

    Thanks for your honesty guys, appreciate it and get ready for attempt number 2
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"

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    The only part of the paint to eliminate is the white striping. A dark blue body with cream window band and a white roof is an excellent look. It is very reminiscent of the Orient Express! The difference, a silver roof. You did such a nice job masking for the cream, it would be a shame for the cars to go with a dip scheme. Between the white roof and the font you chose the cars have a great modern dinner train look.- - - Updated - - -The only part of the paint to eliminate is the white striping. A dark blue body with cream window band and a white roof is an excellent look. It is very reminiscent of the Orient Express! The difference, a silver roof. You did such a nice job masking for the cream, it would be a shame for the cars to go with a dip scheme. Between the white roof and the font you chose the cars have a great modern dinner train look.
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  28. #40
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    Chicago,

    Thanks mate, I really appreciate that. I have repainted the car this evening sing a lighter blue and did eliminate the cream window strip. Re doing the window strip is still possible but will let you see how it looks now (with a white roof) before I do.

    The only other thing I am considering is white stripes above and below the windows, using decals this time rather than trying to paint them. Obviously, if I go back to the white/cream window strip the stripes will disappear. I'll post pictures tomorrow though.
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"

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