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Thread: Experiences with your ESU LokSound Select DCC decoders and Locomotives

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by westfalen View Post
    The new drop in decoder will be going in all my Atlas and IM SDs and if the decoder for the upcoming Atlas GP30 and 35 is going to be available as a separate item all my geeps will get them too.
    I'm interested to see how Atlas handles the speaker on those, and how hard it will be to replicate the arrangement to retrofit older non-sound, but DCC ready versions. How are you guys handling the speakers on GPs? I've been put off by milling a frame (one of the reasons I built a sound car instead), but maybe I just need to get over it.

    Also, for you guys who are successfully speed matching these with non-sound decoders, are you able to do that speed matching with the LokSound feature turned on that makes the prime mover sound increase before the loco starts moving, or do you have to turn that feature off to get the speed matching to work?

    SBS4DCC has a bit more information here (top of the page is the ESU literature, the additional info is at the bottom): http://www.sbs4dcc.com/tutorialstips...tionnotes.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by OTFan View Post
    Also, for you guys who are successfully speed matching these with non-sound decoders, are you able to do that speed matching with the LokSound feature turned on that makes the prime mover sound increase before the loco starts moving, or do you have to turn that feature off to get the speed matching to work?
    Nobody has mentioned this yet, I am wondering the same thing. Drive hold would have to be off, and momentum matched I suppose
    I support the Mike and Scotty pod cast...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bessemer Bob View Post
    Very glad to hear. Majority of my non sound Atlas units have those decoders..

    Did you have issues consisting with momentum, or did you dial the ESUs back?
    Bob,
    Dial the momentum back to 0 before speed matching. Many guys find it is critical to evaluate each locomotive at speed step 1, or speed matching is harder. I require all locos run within 2 mph of each other at step 1. All other speed steps I require within 1 MPH.
    I put the command station display to %speed reading. Locos are set to 128 steps and matched at 28 different throttle settings. Thus: throttle step 1 is 1%, step 2 is 4%, step 3 is 7%, step 4 is 11%, etc. Using the speedometer I do each loco by itself. I have a well tuned "master" loco all others are set to. Naturally, the master loco is LokSound select micro equipped.

    After matching, I MU the engines and work CV23, 24 to set consist momentum/deceleration. A little fiddly, but do-able.
    Chris

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    Another note:
    Since I do the matching using a speedometer, meaning each loco is done separately, the delay before a LokSound releases brakes and moves has no effect on the process. I set the throttle to the %speed setting and don't touch it. Once the LokSound engine brakes release it moves. Non Loksound engines aren't on the track since they are speed matched by themselves. They get matched using the speedometer to set the curve to make the speeds the same as the master loco for each throttle position. Do not try to match 2 or more engines on the track at the same time. It will work eventually, but is a slower process if the drive-trains and/or decoders are different. Most of us just give up after a while when we try it that way.

    HO engines tend to be easier in multiples. I don't recommend speed matching N scale the same way. I think N scale drive-train/motor and decoder performance varies too much. Certainly in my fleet going back many years. Many of my early 90's era Kato/Atlas units are still working out on the railroad and speed matched. Some have had 3 or 4 different decoders over the years.

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    Drive Hold:
    With my mixed decoder consists, F9 Drive Hold is disabled for obvious reasons. We use Run 8 and Coast functions to adjust prime mover sound, and leave the throttle to adjust motor speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OTFan View Post
    Also, for you guys who are successfully speed matching these with non-sound decoders, are you able to do that speed matching with the LokSound feature turned on that makes the prime mover sound increase before the loco starts moving, or do you have to turn that feature off to get the speed matching to work?
    You will have to turn off that delay feature.
    HAROLDN212

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    Quote Originally Posted by OTFan View Post
    I'm interested to see how Atlas handles the speaker on those, and how hard it will be to replicate the arrangement to retrofit older non-sound, but DCC ready versions. How are you guys handling the speakers on GPs? I've been put off by milling a frame (one of the reasons I built a sound car instead), but maybe I just need to get over it.
    I have done several Atlas Geeps with MRC sound decoders (hopefully to be replaced with ESU) and there is space under the decoder board at the rear for a sugar cube speaker with a cut down sound box, the same applies to the ESU 73100 in Intermountain SDs so I'm hoping I can do the same with the GP decoders.

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    I put the 9X16mm speaker in the cab of my installs. When I get to one of my GPs I'll post a how to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpwisc View Post
    Iím not a big fan of locating them in the fuel tank for 2 reasons. The first is the amount of metal you have to remove, less metal in the frame reduces reactive effort and pulling power. The other is having the magnet so low. The time I tried mounting a speaker there it picked up loose metal shavings (club layout, I donít know it it was motor metal or rail metal, but it all ended up on the speaker magnet. I put my capacitors in the cab. It works for me.

    I should also add that I drill out all my fans and use etched metal ones. This not only looks better, but the sound travels up the inside of the shell and sounds like it is coming from the center of the engine. Iím sure you get a similar effect even with a cab mounted speaker.
    I understand the concern, but surprisingly enough, even after all the milling you really don't lose that much weight with the newer, lighter frames once the install is done. And with a good 9X16mm sugar cube speaker you don't need to cut out the fans or do any body drilling. As always, do as you wish, just what I've learned as of late.

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    Has anybody used JMRI for speed matching with these decoders yet?
    I support the Mike and Scotty pod cast...

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKCentral View Post
    I understand the concern, but surprisingly enough, even after all the milling you really don't lose that much weight with the newer, lighter frames once the install is done. And with a good 9X16mm sugar cube speaker you don't need to cut out the fans or do any body drilling. As always, do as you wish, just what I've learned as of late.
    I superdetail all my engines so the fans happen right off the bat. Besides the massive appearance difference, the sound difference is quite noticeable, even with the 9x16mm Knowles speakers and speaker boxes I’m using. I’ve done the side by side comparison, so you can’t talk me out of it.
    Karl

    CEO of the Skally Line, an Eastern MN Shortline

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    Quote Originally Posted by jpwisc View Post
    I superdetail all my engines so the fans happen right off the bat. Besides the massive appearance difference, the sound difference is quite noticeable, even with the 9x16mm Knowles speakers and speaker boxes I’m using. I’ve done the side by side comparison, so you can’t talk me out of it.
    I haven't done a side by side, I might have to try that. I certainly am not trying to talk you out of it, I was just trying to say that holes in the shell weren't necessary as before, but, I will see if it sounds even better to me with the setup I've been doing as I also enjoy super detailing my locos. I'm also always looking for ways to improve the sound.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bessemer Bob View Post
    Has anybody used JMRI for speed matching with these decoders yet?
    Yes. I use the 28 step table, and I can't say it's very different from doing any other locomotive. It's all the other CVs that are scary!
    N scale CPR Kootenay Division, started May 2011!
    Youtube channel: (MRR, Vlogs, Railway vids!) http://www.youtube.com/user/KootenayDivision
    Blog about the railway and methods used: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/ (Updated October 19th)
    Oh, and I take photos, too! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296

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    Quote Originally Posted by trainboyh16-44 View Post
    It's all the other CVs that are scary
    Thats what is worrying me about jumping into sound... But then I am sure down the line it will be habit.. A few hours watching YouTube and I'll be good to go.

    Just waiting on a few Speed Matching videos on LokSound with JMRI, so far just found a few with Lok programmer. Then again I guess I could just go that route, I think TCS decoders can be done on the Lok programmer as well.
    I support the Mike and Scotty pod cast...

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