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Thread: Broadway Ltd F3's and F7's are in the mail

  1. #141
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    Yup, then salvage the decoder for something else (Kato, perhaps?).
    Radon Gulch & Tortilla Flats Railway - the 'Good Gas' line! - a minor division of the Santa Fe Southern Railway Co. "Dust, gas and a lot of rocky stuff...

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  3. #142
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    Sent:

    "Thanks for responding. Based on your explanation the gear train doesn't appear out of spec, and since I don't run anything smaller than a 13 3/4" radius, I'll proceed to run them as EMD intended! They do sound great, BEMF is awesome as usual, they are just missing a few oz. (decoder, I know).



    "The 'jackhammer' sound from my F7 may have been due to the gear tower not meshing properly with the worm drive. Startling, to say the least, especially fresh out of the box. Motor running, just no gear mesh. If 50% mesh is okay, I will proceed. I did swap the front/rear trucks on that 'A' unit."
    Radon Gulch & Tortilla Flats Railway - the 'Good Gas' line! - a minor division of the Santa Fe Southern Railway Co. "Dust, gas and a lot of rocky stuff...

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    Quote Originally Posted by drbnc View Post
    Draft reply. "Thanks for responding. Since the gear train doesn't appear out of spec, and since I don't run anything smaller than a 13 3/4" radius, I'll proceed to enhance their operation using some ideas I have received (thrust washers, added weight, making sure the worm meshes properly in the gear tower, proper lubrication and wheel gauging)."

    Anything anybody want added, in a nice tone? My response will never make it past the first support tier anyway.
    I doubt these small enterprises have tiers of support. More then likely a few people with very vested interests trying to keep the customers happy. If you're really not happy (and it sounds like several folks have legitimate reasons to be unhappy), then just tell the manufacturer what your concerns are. If you feel that you paid for something you didn't receive, then return it to the vendor. If you used a credit card (you should), then you won't lose any money. The vendor can likewise return defective product to their distributor (who may be the manufacturer), to get their money back. I wouldn't get into discussions of "in spec" or "out of spec." Does it run?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NorsemanJack View Post
    I wouldn't get into discussions of "in spec" or "out of spec."
    Curious. Why not, and especially with a high-ticket item such as a locomotive? If the vendor doesn't know their product, don't you think they should? Someone there designed it, or worked directly with the designer/CAD tech who did. If someone here can competently delve into specs with them, great!

    The way I see it, the more savvy we are as modelers and consumers, the higher the standard we can expect and demand of manufacturers and vendors. We'll take our money to those who deliver quality out of the box. That's how the market works.

    Paying a couple hundred bucks for "finicky" should have been something well past in N scale's rear-view mirror.

    Quote Originally Posted by NorsemanJack View Post
    Does it run?
    Well, the obvious response is, "Compared to what?" The old Lone Star and Aurora N scale locomotives of the 1960s "ran." Expectations have obviously changed in the past 50 years.

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  7. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by NorsemanJack View Post
    Does it run?
    Not really, no.

    -Mark

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  9. #146
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    "Run" is a relative term. It 'runs', but not well. And not all the time.
    Radon Gulch & Tortilla Flats Railway - the 'Good Gas' line! - a minor division of the Santa Fe Southern Railway Co. "Dust, gas and a lot of rocky stuff...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spookshow View Post
    Broadway Ltd F3's and F7's are in the mail
    Are they back in the mail now?

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  13. #148
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    For me BLI will be on spam for now on, till i read a decent review. I will stick with KATO, never give me one small reason to say pass. NEVER. They have to think a lot on this mater, and if pursue with this way to build model locomotive, soon they have to send it on moon, being hard to find customer after you treat them with disrespect for the money they pay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gamitzu View Post
    For me BLI will be on spam for now on, till i read a decent review.
    Thing is, there will be some people who purchase the BLI F units and they'll run like silk out of the box. They'll wonder what the fuss is about.

    The fuss is about quality control and consistency. It's what Kato and Atlas have done so well over the years. Sounds as if Scale Trains and FVM are heading in the right direction (just need a bigger sample size). You can add LifeLike and others here if you wish.

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  17. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Schmidt View Post
    Are they back in the mail now?
    Yep, long gone. And it actually worked out pretty well for me. Since one completely failed and the other one mostly failed, I was able to return them for a refund instead of having to re-sell them (I already have all the EMD F units I'm ever likely to need, and none of the roadnames offered were of any interest to me personally).

    -Mark

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    Lucky you. Return the it back and you are happy. But for a European modeler which fall over the warranty only covering the continental USA???
    If was only small problem with one or ten models, ok, but this one seem to be more deep. I love American locomotives, i will buy them, but i keep restriction on bli till i read a reasonable review of their models. I am not a rivet counter, i can close my eyes on small error, easy to cover or to correct. But this on the shell or paint. When came first problem on mechanical issue, that bad. Sad but true.

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    Just one last thing from me on this. I did receive a follow-up email from them after my second email (somewhere above). I will say that they are VERY responsive to customer satisfaction, going so far as offering to replace BOTH of my A/B sets with new, tested units. Maybe because I was nice in my response...

    Anyway, I turned them down (but thanked them for their offer and responsiveness), since my F7 set is undergoing mods for weight and gear alignment, F3 set soon to follow. I don't want to nullify any chance I might have with them in the future should I need repairs, and I don't think the person I was corresponding with was responsible for their engineering. Customer service is not fun, so I just made it easier for them to go home and forget the day. I hate being on the other end of "those" phone calls, deserved or not.

    In the end, it's just a hobby.
    Radon Gulch & Tortilla Flats Railway - the 'Good Gas' line! - a minor division of the Santa Fe Southern Railway Co. "Dust, gas and a lot of rocky stuff...

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  22. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by drbnc View Post
    Customer service is not fun, so I just made it easier for them to go home and forget the day. I hate being on the other end of "those" phone calls, deserved or not.
    Right on! The people who answer our calls are very often not the people who make the calls, if you get my drift.

    I'm glad to hear about how they responded. That helps me in that if they do get things squared away and I buy a BLI product, I know what to anticipate if I do run into any issues.

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  24. #154
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    And by the way, the Radon Gulch Railway Museum is expecting a restored WP F3 A/B set, along with a restored freight scheme Burlington A/B/A F3 set, courtesy of the Bay and Mr. Kato, benefactor and chief supplier of all power that's motive. They are currently being retrofitted with newfangled digital command control, but no sound due to current EPA (and wallet, and laziness) restrictions.
    Radon Gulch & Tortilla Flats Railway - the 'Good Gas' line! - a minor division of the Santa Fe Southern Railway Co. "Dust, gas and a lot of rocky stuff...

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    Mr Kato supplies some of the best slightly used equipment...

    victor

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Schmidt View Post
    Curious. Why not, and especially with a high-ticket item such as a locomotive? If the vendor doesn't know their product, don't you think they should? Someone there designed it, or worked directly with the designer/CAD tech who did. If someone here can competently delve into specs with them, great!

    The way I see it, the more savvy we are as modelers and consumers, the higher the standard we can expect and demand of manufacturers and vendors. We'll take our money to those who deliver quality out of the box. That's how the market works.

    Paying a couple hundred bucks for "finicky" should have been something well past in N scale's rear-view mirror.
    I probably didn't explain myself clearly. If I (the purchaser) feel an item is defective, I don't feel compelled to get into a discussion with a supplier and/or manufacturer regarding what "in spec" versus "out of spec" is, as at times folks who don't wish to stand behind their product hide behind such things. I'm not suggesting that this is the case here. Based upon Mark's description of his experience, a reasonable person would consider those units defective. If it were me, I would just return them to the retailer and request a refund. If said retailer offered to refund my return shipping and send a "good" product with no shipping charge; I would certainly consider it. Otherwise I would just return them and get a refund.

    That said, certainly if an N scaler has some good suggestions for design improvement, it is great that they share them with the producer. I would personally divorce that from any warranty coverage discussions. That may just be me.

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  30. #157
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    [QUOTE=Paul Schmidt;537988]Thing is, there will be some people who purchase the BLI F units and they'll run like silk out of the box. They'll wonder what the fuss is about.

    And I'm one of them, Paul...I've been on road a bit since I received my GN F3A/B and NP F7A/B sets so haven't run them that much, but they have, in fact, run like silk right out of the boxes so far. I turn 'em loose and just let 'em go for several hours at a time, pulling 13 Kato passenger cars each, on my temporary Kato double track layout (about 22' x 11' L-shape.) No problem thus far. They ARE light, compared to my Katos, so I've decided (I'm ready for the slings and arrows...) to spring for another A unit in both roadnames to perhaps make the consists longer. I'm keeping my Kato ABAs (I did one set in NP Loewy to match all the passenger cars I'd painted, the other is stock Kato GN) as backups. I'll have to admit getting quite worried about having bought them before reading reviews from Spookshow Mark and other guys who've been disappointed, but (so far,) I'm very happy with the one I have. Also, my only only BLI engines are the SP&S 750 - I got both paint schemes - that Lowell commissioned some years ago, and I really like them. They haven't been run much either but seem to be just fine.

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  32. #158
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    Yep, I'm in that happy camper group as well..
    My A-B-B B&O units came yesterday (Wednesday) and ran them on a friends 250' layout that also has a 2% grade. The powered A took right off without issue, the powered B was a little loud and jerky. We put a touch of Detoxit on the wheels of the B unit, that cured the pickup problem. The gears of the B unit was making some noise, they looked dry so we added a tiny drop of oil, things were much quieter.

    We ran these for a solid 3 hours in both directions, they just got better. we pulled 10 cars, i know that's not a lot, they pulled fine. I checked the trucks afterward and they seem to be fine.

    This may or may not mean anything but I suspect they came from the second shipment to Hogtrainz.
    My favorite computer game is "Stump The Spellchecker"...
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  34. #159
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    Another follow-up. So, after two days of running the ABA set for about 1-1/2 hours straight, I was starting to believe I was the fortunate one to get a relatively good pair. Then, last night, they totally stopped running well. Stalling every ten inches, cutting in and out. Not sure what was going on. Gears didn’t look any different. Weren’t getting hot. Then I tried running several other locos, including the smooth-as-silk ScaleTrains GEVo. Same problems. Nothing ran. Checked wiring, nothing obvious. Finally gave up and decided to try again another day. Tonight I started with the F units and they worked fine (not the greatest pullers, and they will stall unless you live with the Bright Boy in your hand). So did every other loco.

    Only thing that comes to mind is the risk us Northern Californians run with our non-air conditioned garage-based layouts - yesterday was uncommonly hot in the Bay Area - and the garage gets quite warm - could that have affected the track gauge enough to throw everything off? Tonight it was definitely cooler - and no problems.

    Summary: my BLI F units run acceptably well, but far from perfect. Like their Alcos, they really don’t like dirty rails or wheels or points, or (perhaps) hot weather! I’ll do one more evening, but unless something goes wrong, I’ll keep these. Sound more like poor quality control than a totally flawed design. Although with such tight tolerances in N scale, you’d think that a really good design would compensate for this variability.

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    For those of you that have (seemingly) good ones, I'll be interested to see how long the truck gears remain smooth. If the shafts are as loose as they were on mine, it seems like it's only a matter of time before they get out of whack. It took a couple three days (20+ hours of running) for mine to really go haywire, and they seemed to degrade rapidly after that.

    -Mark

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