Pete's Nn3 Journey

[peteGSX]

Hey all, I've been on here for a while now and have just quietly been observing and plodding away at my learning about all things Nn3, DCC, Arduino, and 3D printing. Four concurrent steep learning curves has been fun! :lol:

I figured it's time I start a thread, and while it's not just a layout build thread, I figure this is probably the most appropriate place.

So, what am I doing? Well, I'm in Brisbane, Australia, and grew up in a suburb called Acacia Ridge that I just recently discovered has quite a large freight terminal. As a kid in the '70's I recall the big diesel locomotives hauling freight trains down the line and thought they were pretty cool, and now I understand why there were so many!

Anyway, the fun of COVID taught me over the last 18 months that I need an indoor hobby (motorcycling is my outdoor hobby, doesn't help so much in lockdown), mucking around with my dad's HO trains as a kid was fun, and in the back of my mind I was always interested in it. As a teenager I got into computers and thought how cool it would be to have a computer controlled layout, and of course that's just reality these days.

So, here I am 40 odd years later.

I'm keen to build a layout that's inspired by what I thought was cool growing up, so that'll mainly be diesel locomotives hauling freight, and given our track here is 1067mm (3' 6"), I'm going for Nn3 rather than just N. I'm planning on a passenger service also as there were still some rail motors running around that were nicknamed the "Silver Bullet" as their bodies were stainless steel.

I picked up a few rather second hand locomotives to see how they're put together, two of which are functional and will be converted to narrow gauge, and am part way through the first conversion at the moment.

I bought myself a 3D printer a few months ago (Creality Ender 3 V2) as I'm intending to design and print my own Queensland Rail locomotives and rolling stock, which I've also started on, and also for printing the various trackside accessories, buildings, etc. including a turntable and roundhouse.

I've gotten as far now as getting my head around DCC with DCC++EX on an Arduino Mega, and have some Rokuhan Z track (I'm not keen on laying my own track, at least not yet anyway).

I had an initial idea for a layout, but after pondering it for a while, have scrapped it and started again, but nowhere near final yet. Essentially, I want a switching/holding yard with continuous running being possible while that happens, a turntable with a roundhouse, an industrial type area, some container storage, and a ramp for loading cars as well. There was a Holden factory here assembly the ubiquitous Holden Gemini, so I think it would be pretty cool to include that somehow.

I'm planning on automating as much as possible, so things like a gantry crane loading/unloading containers is definitely on my radar also.

Ok, that's a lot of text! I don't have a great deal of progress worthy of photographing, but here's a few pics at least.

There's a shot of my basic bench space available (1900mm x 1050mm) which will end up about 1200mm high and will be on lockable castors as I need to vacate that space for working on the bikes.

There's my abandoned layout, although contains most of the elements I want.

The Atlas Santa Fe loco I'm currently converting to narrow gauge, not sure why that photo's upside down though! I'm converting it by copying, narrowing, and 3D printing the bogies. The biggest challenge has been 3D printing the narrower gear setup but I think I'm getting somewhere and I hope to have it complete and running this week.

There's my very messy DCC setup at the moment with wires everywhere, essentially the result of learning and experimenting. In amongst that on the breadboard is my Arduino Nano based DCC point controller for the Rokuhan points, as well as my DCC controller stepper motor setup for the turntable.

My very basic test track is there also, just a few turnouts on an oval so when I get my conversions done I can ensure they operate smoothly.

Oh, as a side note to all this, I've gotta say a huge thank you to both Sumner on here for his sharing of 3D designs on Thingiverse, and also to the locals who live in my area here who reached out and invited me to join the regular in-person catch ups to discuss all things model railroading, share ideas, and have a general chin wag as well of course.

[tomcook]

Oh wow, I like what you're doing and will be following your progress with much interest.

That's prittey brave what you're doing with that loco chassis. I hope you can get it running.

Nice bikes too :)

[peteGSX]

Cheers Tom! I saw another thread on here on modifying loco bogies for a narrow gauge conversion, but the ones on this only have about 0.5mm thickness where the axles go through, so that's not an option. I figured this would be the best way to go.

I'll definitely keep updating with progress and photos.

Thanks on the bikes too, both have been built/rebuilt by me and give me much pleasure now also :)

[el Gato Gordo]

Not being an ops guy I may not know whereof I speak on this. In order to use your yard, wouldn't a train need to foul the main line? If your yard connected to the inner track on the left, instead of to the main line, that inner track could be your arrival/departure track. Thus no fouling of the line with ops in the yard and a train could indulge in continuous running throughout.

Ops people feel free to jump in here and tell me to butt out. Definitely not my field of knowledge!

[peteGSX]

I have zero operations experience myself Gordon, but yes, you're spot on, and is the primary reason for abandoning that layout. I really want to be able to have continuous running while doing some switching/shunting work, and that layout just doesn't cut it for that.

I've gone in a bit of a different direction now and am roughly 75% through figuring out my next option.

I'm trying to stay disciplined enough to finish that Atlas conversion first, but hope to be able to share the next layout draft probably by this weekend.

Then comes the (im)patient bit where I need to wait to save to buy all the track :D

[peteGSX]

I've had a bit of a one step forward, two steps back kind of week with the Atlas conversion, so I'm not where I wanted to be with it yet. My plan was to get stuck into it this morning as I think I've figured out where I went wrong and have some re-printed bogies and driven gears to try. However our washing machine decided to leak all over the laundry floor so I suspect the Atlas conversion may need to wait a little longer.

However, I have at least got a layout I'm now reasonably happy with done up in Xtrkcad and it ticks all the boxes so far. I've also attached two photos I found online of the freight terminal, obviously not from the '70s or '80s which is the era I'm modeling, but the track itself won't really have changed much since then (if at all). The outside continuous run loop looks a little boring, but is designed for the Silver Bullet to run around the outside stopping at stations while the freight terminal does its thing uninterrupted. It's the best way I could see to do it with the space I've got.

The layout should be done in a way that I can build it out as time and money allow me to add track as well, with the focus and starting point being the turntable, roundhouse, and the start of the switching yard.

If I get to do my automation that I'd like, the gantry crane will be able to load/unload containers, and the car ramp will be able to have a car rolling on and off a transport wagon. The gantry crane is probably the simpler of the two to accomplish, no idea yet on how I'd get a car to roll on and off a wagon while letting the wagon still be a functioning part of a train.

The area around the car ramp will end up as a holding yard for the Holden Geminis assembled locally that I mentioned in the first post. I don't have room to replicate the assembly plant, but I'm ok with that. I'll probably have a small Holden office there or some such.

There'll be four warehouses in a group up the top servicing various industries, with a distribution centre on the right which is likely to have a bunch of forklifts and trucks hanging around it. Not sure what will end up in the bottom right corner just yet.

The rolling road I've got there is a crazy idea I have that I don't know if it will work out or not. Essentially, it would be covered by a (removeable) single engine house, and be able to perform three separate functions if it works out: Firstly as a programming track, connected to the DCC+EX programming circuit. Second, it would switch to be connected to the main track, and be used for running in new locos. Lastly, (and this is the crazy idea) it would continue to be connected to the main track, but the rolling road wheels would lock in position, with what would effectively be a powered rerailer connecting it to the siding, which should in theory allow a loco to climb off the rolling road and into service. An interesting challenge that one!

[peteGSX]

So as expected, the washing machine took my time today, so the Atlas conversion continues to be stalled. I did, however, get a look at it tonight and even with the re-printed driven gears, I just can't seem to get them quite right. I'm going to revert to plan B which is narrowing the existing driven gears and give that a shot. It's so frustratingly close!

I did also start printing roundhouse walls which are from Sumner's design (thanks again for sharing!). That was about an 8 hour print on low quality, and they came out surprisingly well. I've started post processing but more to go yet. I have the other two corner walls printing at the moment, then will keep going with the remaining side walls and then the back walls during the week after work.

Fingers crossed I can get some progress on the Atlas conversion this week, I'm really keen to get one done so I can test it.

[peteGSX]

I've had a somewhat successful end of the week. I finished printing all the side and back walls of the roundhouse (just realised no further photos, oops!), just need to do a lot of post processing clean up now.

I started on what I hope to be a reasonably prototypically correct turntable during the week, and so far I've gotten as far as being able to print a first draft of the bridge base with the air tanks that attach to each side. The bridge was printed in standard quality (0.2mm layer height) so the curved base is pretty stepped, but I'll print with a 0.08mm layer height when I'm ready to see how the final version will look. The air tanks have been printed with 0.08mm layer height already, and I'm really happy with how they turned out and they only need some post processing clean up to be useable.

The angled platform at the front is where the control box/motor sits as well as having a small platform for the operator to stand on. The actual deck is only 60' long but as that's the only measurement I've got, all other measurements are based on estimations from photos. The photos are embedded in a PDF so haven't figured out how to share those just yet.

The Atlas conversion progressed well enough that I was able to assemble one bogie for testing, using the plan B of narrowing the existing gears that drive the wheels.

To narrow the wheels, I ended up using a drill as a lathe, then had to file the axle stub to about 2.5mm length to ensure not only is the gauge right, but that the axle stubs from each side don't come in to contact with each other.

The axle stubs are about 1.6mm diameter where they insert into the gears, but have a 2mm shoulder to keep them in gauge, and I had to remove a bit of that shoulder to allow them to move in to the correct gauge.

Unfortunately, when assembled, the wheels only rotated half a turn or so before stalling, and I've discovered I haven't made the bogies quite right, and the gears are binding on the top of the inner wall. I re-printed a new modified pair last night ready for post processing and re-assembly. Fingers crossed!

[peteGSX]

Hmmm still waiting for my prior post to be moderated (when do I stop being too new I wonder?) but tonight was a little frustrating. I cleaned up both re-printed bogies with the adjusted dimensions for more gear clearance, but then proceeded to break both of the delicate worm gear supports. I've beefed them up an additional 0.1mm again and am printing another set now. I'm cautious of adding too much to them in case it interferes with the turning circle of the bogies. Pics to come when I get some success...

Oh, and my print of the centre part of the turntable pit also failed after nearly completing. I run my Creality Ender 3 V2 via OctoPrint on an old laptop in the garage, and a couple of times lately it has reset the USB connection unexpectedly, and tonight that happened at 93% through the print job. I've reverted to uploading to the SD card and just monitoring via OctoPrint, so I'll see if that's any more reliable.

[peteGSX]

I had a somewhat productive Sunday morning yesterday.

I finally have the first Atlas Nn3 conversion bogie ready for track testing. I had a bit of a scare when I filed a touch too much off one wheel after discovering it was making contact with its opposite and would cause a short, but shuffling gears and wheels around seems to have averted disaster. Pushing it manually through a set of Rokuhan points feels ok and it doesn't feel like it wants to derail, and the gauge measures ok, so here's hoping!

For those of you not familiar with Rokuhan track, they have a neat power feeder system in every straight section that has a little push out plastic insert in the roadbed that you typically replace with their power feeder. However, the way it's implemented is quite chunky and I don't think fits in with where I'm going, so I decided to make my own. I've ended up with a base that will push in, and have made a template of sorts to bend some 0.3mm thick brass sheet I have to suit. Hopefully the photos explain that a little clearer. I haven't started on the brass contacts yet, but will do that once I've finished with the Atlas conversion.

Finally, while working on the bogie, I had the base of my turntable pit printing which has the stepper mount in it, and to demonstrate just how small a 60' turntable is at scale, I've sat the Atlas shell on it for reference. I'll be ordering some Peco Z flex track this week which I'll remove from the sleepers to make the pit rail as well as the rails on the bridge deck, as they were simply fastened straight to the steel deck rather than being on sleepers. I'm not sure if it will join neatly to the Rokuhan track or not, but hopefully I can also use it for the initial part of the turntable approach sections so I can 3D print suitable roadbed for those little bits as well.

I also need to figure out how to get these attachments embedded in the right parts of this text for better context, rather than just photos at the end of the post.

[Jugtown Modeler]

Awesome work.
Love the 3D printed solutions.
Much needed and practical innovations / solutions.

[Frank17913]

I also need to figure out how to get these attachments embedded in the right parts of this text for better context, rather than just photos at the end of the post.

I usually just go into advanced mode and put the cursor where I want the text to appear, then select the picture icon in the second row of the menu, and insert the picture. It will put a copy at the end of the post AND where you wanted it in the text as well.

[peteGSX]

Awesome work.
Love the 3D printed solutions.
Much needed and practical innovations / solutions.

Cheers Steve! For whatever reason I'm not one just to buy stuff off the shelf typically, I like to add a bit of a custom touch (neither of my bikes are quite stock for example). Being able to 3D print what I want rather than having to find something that's almost right, then modify it, is a better option for me.

Also, once I'm happy with the designs, it's a way I can give back by sharing on Thingiverse for others to either use or modify further to suit their own needs.


I usually just go into advanced mode and put the cursor where I want the text to appear, then select the picture icon in the second row of the menu, and insert the picture. It will put a copy at the end of the post AND where you wanted it in the text as well.

Ah, yes, cheers Frank, so it does! Just reposted my turntable base as a test and works like a charm.

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[peteGSX]

Well, there's good news and bad news. The good news is that the Atlas conversion is technically "complete", in as much as it seems to sit nicely on the rails, and when pushed through the turnout doesn't feel like it wants to derail.

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The bad news is that, unfortunately, the rear bogie has some binding issues with the gears, enough that it will only run in reverse with the loco upside down (ie, with no weight on it). When run forwards, it forces the worm gear up out of that fragile bit of the bogie, which is of course better than breaking it yet again. I need to dismantle that bogie again and find where it's binding up, but that will probably be a Sunday morning job at this point.

There is a follow-up step here to install a DCC decoder, but I need to get it running right first.

If I need to re-print the gears again, I've just ordered some PLA+ filament today which is apparently superior to PLA, and the settings tell me to use a lower bed temperature, so it'll be interesting to see if it gives a better result for the gears. I had many attempts at printing the gears before getting them close enough to try, and the best result came with a slightly lower bed temperature.

Aside from all that, I've ordered the Peco Z flex track to use for the turntable pit and deck, although it hasn't been posted yet, and this morning I've also ordered some tiny 4 x 1.5 x 2mm bearings to make that crazy rolling road idea. This weekend I'll also pick up the remaining timber and castors to get my bench up on wheels and at the correct height.

This is exciting now as I'll have a bunch of stuff to keep me occupied over the Christmas/New Year break, and if I get those gears right I'll even have a loco to run around my test track!

[peteGSX]

Things are looking up! I re-printed some slightly adjusted gears in PLA+ this time and replaced the rear bogie gears with those, and it is now a runner! Might not be the smoothest loco in the world but it's functional and running successfully around my test track as I type this, both forwards and reverse. I'm letting it just run continuously for a while to bed things in.

I've yet to finish designing the bogie side rails, and I really should paint the bogies and the sides satin black. There's also a DCC install to be done yet.

Here are some dodgy videos for proof :lol:


https://youtu.be/npxBo_aTtuA


https://youtu.be/4WgESov1QQQ

I also went up to the local Bunnings this morning and purchased the remaining timber and some brackets and castors to get the benchwork back on track, which I'll be able to put together sometime in the next week or so.

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[peteGSX]

A bit more of an update this evening.

First, I arrived home to find my Peco Z track had already arrived with the joiners, and it's a pretty spot on match for the Rokuhan track which is awesome. I can use it to make the ray tracks from the turntable as well as for the pit and deck rails.

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I also printed what I think will be the final version of the bridge base. I've got some post processing to do of the pit/stepper support structure as well as the bridge base yet, but I've test fitted the donor Rokuhan shorty trailer chassis wheels and it all looks promising.

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Now that I have the Peco track I can get to designing the pit rail and bridge deck and finish up the turntable design.

[peteGSX]

I was able to get my benchtop up on wheels today! It's at the height I want it, 1150mm before the 50mm thick foam goes on top, which will bring it right to my desired 1200mm tall.

Between Friday and yesterday morning I was also able to pivot my workbench with the vise and drill press 90 degress which has given me a heap more room (in the background of the photo below).

That let me use this afternoon to roughly lay out the XTrackCAD layout prints, blu-tack the roundhouse walls together, and then sit them, the rough turntable, and rolling road bases in place.

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I've since discovered, while researching the turntable, that a proper Queensland Rail roundhouse has servicing pits for the locos, so while I've sat rail guides and Rokuhan track in there for now, I'll look at designing and 3D printing some proper pits and use more Peco flex track for the roundhouse tracks as I believe I've figured out how to anchor that neatly (more to come on that later in the week I hope).

The walls in view are Sumner's roundhouse walls and the track guides are modified to cater for the Rokuhan Z track.

I'll be designing the roof according to a Queensland Rail roundhouse roof, which is to say corrugated iron that slopes in from the rear of the round house to the centre. I also need to figure out what to do for the entrance yet, as it doesn't appear there are any doors on the one I have photos of.

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Last thing is that I was very surprised to receive my inexpensive eBay soldering station today, given it's a public holiday here. The tip on the iron I purchased way back in 1994 really isn't great any more, and apparently with this one I should be able to do some SMD work which I think I'll need to do. Of course, the first thing I had to do was design and 3D print the holder for the spare tips and tools!

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I now have a couple of weeks off work, and hopefully I can get things like my turntable finished up as well as working on some prototypical Queensland Rail buffer stops and maybe even getting back to my first actual local locomotive, which is a DH class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensland_Railways_DH_class) shunter.

I want a couple of these on my layout for shunting/switching duties, with a 2350 class (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensland_Railways_2350_class) for actual locomotive duties.

[peteGSX]

Well, I've got surprisingly little actual progress to report, mainly due to using this time to 3D print some larger items that have been on my agenda for a while, and having some issues with my printer as well. It's been disconnecting from my laptop regularly and I think I'm having some extrusion issues as well, so working through that.

I've also decided I'm really not happy with the stepper mount and base design for the turntable, so I'll likely adjust everything below the bridge base. Basically, I know at some point in the future that the stepper motor will fail, so I want to make sure I can lift the bridge out to be able to remove and replace the stepper without disturbing the rest of the layout. The alternative would be to be able to access it from underneath, but that means cutting a hole in the plywood benchtop rather than just having a recess in the (yet to be laid) foam to suit. If anyone has any thoughts on this I'm happy to hear them!

I also need to re-think the roundtable floor as I've discovered that a proper Queensland Rail roundhouse has servicing pits recessed under the tracks. That's on my design agenda now, with the aim of 3D printing the floor and pits in order to have Peco flex track mount to them from the turntable edges.

My terminal blocks finally arrived yesterday which will make wiring so much easier, especially while designing and testing Arduino code for the turntable. At the moment, I'm trying to jam track power and the Arduino DCC input into the screw terminals on my motor shield which isn't great.

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In terms of actual progress, I at least got the XTrackCAD prints trimmed to size and laid out my existing Rokuhan track on them. This of course gave me a bit of sticker shock when I realised just how much I have yet to spend!

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On the plus side, I can start with "Stage 1" which will be enough track to have the inner loop, plus enough of the switching yard to get to the turntable and roundhouse.

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The other thing I've been spending time on is getting suitable roadbed and ties designed so I can 3D print buffer stops and track bed where required in order to use the Peco flex track. Testing shows my tie design works for straight track (no photos sorry), and in theory should work for the turntable pit rail as well.

I've mostly finished the design of the prototypical buffer stops used here, although am having challenges getting them to print well at the moment. I'm pushing the limits of FDM printing I feel, but will persevere. The idea is a 10mm length of Peco flex will slot in to the roadbed, with the centre rail and rest being 3D printed. The items in real life don't actually have ties that close to the buffer stops from what I can see, and certainly have nothing like that at the rear. It seems a pile of ballast is sufficient. Yet to do on the design is to be able to connect the roadbed properly to the Rokuhan roadbed, aside from that it's pretty much done pending any design alterations required for better printing.

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[badlandnp]

Every little bit of progress counts!

I like the idea of a lift out bridge to replace the stepper motor. Is there any way to use a 1/4" guitar plug and reciever to position the table in the center? While using a stepper to turn it? I'm thinking of old stereo LP players that used a rubber wheel to turn the table with?

Just some random thoughts, before coffee..............:coffee::coffee::coffee:

[peteGSX]

Every little bit of progress counts!

I like the idea of a lift out bridge to replace the stepper motor. Is there any way to use a 1/4" guitar plug and reciever to position the table in the center? While using a stepper to turn it? I'm thinking of old stereo LP players that used a rubber wheel to turn the table with?

Just some random thoughts, before coffee..............:coffee::coffee::coffee:

Mmmm coffee! Having my morning coffee as I type this in fact :coffee::cool:

I like your thinking! I did initially think of having the stepper remote and maybe a belt drive but thought I might be overcomplicating things (a bad habit of mine). However, that would certainly make the stepper more accessible for replacement.

Using something like a 1/4" plug/receiver would also actually provide the electrical contacts for the deck track as well, rather than figuring out a brass wiper in the centre and wheel wipers for the bridge wheels. Providing they'd cope with the current of course, although so far current requirements for the bridge are proving very low and there'll only ever be one loco on the bridge at a time.

I will certainly give that idea some more thought. Most plugs I recall seeing have a hexagonal plastic section, which would make it easy to 3D print some sort of gear or pulley to suit.

Cheers, Pete

[badlandnp]

I have a vague recollection of an OLD magazine article where someone did use the sound jack for a center pivot. I will definitely be interested to see what you come up with, as I eventually have to come up with one of some sort as well!

[peteGSX]

Ah interesting! This has been brewing in my mind while I keep experimenting with slicing options to get my buffer stop printed properly (having a hard time with stringing at the moment), and my initial thoughts are to either 3D print a pulley to go around the hexagonal outside of a 6.5mm mono plug, or to print one that will simply thread on to it in place of the existing plastic housing. Getting the threads right will be the challenge as it will need to thread securely enough that it won't unscrew! Of course I could also just make those threads and the pulley an extended part of the bridge base as well. Plenty of options!

The same diameter pulley will need to go on the stepper motor of course, and for a drive belt, I'm thinking number 64 rubber bands are the way to go. 87mm diameter x 6mm wide, and cheap as chips to replace when they fail. I think I'll need to get my hands on a plug/socket to experment with.

The other thing running around my mind at the moment is uncoupling, as I'd like electromagnetic uncouplers discretely placed under the track, and that's something I'd like to have figured out before laying any track so I know how to mount them and modify the Rokuhan track as required. At some point I need to stop thinking of new ideas and get on with finishing something as I keep distracting myself at the moment :lol:

[peteGSX]

I gave the belt and pulley idea more thought last night and started properly looking at options, and in the end I've decided to keep it simple and just stick with the bridge on top of the stepper. To be able to lift it out easily, all I need to do is extend the centre of the bridge down a bit further to mate properly with the stepper shaft, and have the pit floor edges finish inside the pit rail, which would allow it to lift up easily and not need to be screwed or glued down.

When thinking about it further, the other options just felt like overcomplicating what I needed, and replacing the stepper motor will be infrequent, so I just need to be able to do it when it fails.

I'm still processing the uncoupler thoughts and am doing heaps of searching and watching of Youtube videos at the moment. I'd really like to use a nail or similar small diameter item that can sit between the rails, and have a coil strong enough that it could sit under the Rokuhan road bed rather than have to poke up between the ties. I'm ok with DC electronic theory, but have never been great with things like coils, impedance, or AC theory, and it seems in order to have a repelling force to push the couplers up requires AC rather than DC voltage. This is hurting my brain so far, but in a pleasant way :confused:

[peteGSX]

So it seems my uncoupler theory is based on incorrect assumptions! Looking closer at videos, it seems the Micro-Trains Magne-Matic couplers I'm likely to use actually move sideways to uncouple rather than moving up, which is interesting. Much more Googling required here I think!

[peteGSX]

I've had some success! While swirling turntable and uncoupler ideas around my head, I kept persevering with the buffer stop, and I think I finally have it pretty much right.

It now connects successfully to the Rokuhan track bed and the Peco track connects nicely with the Rokuhan joiners as well.

This is my first complete draft, which I've not done any post-processing of yet so it's a bit stringy, and it's all just held together with blu-tac for the time being. I also managed to cut one rail a bit short.

I do have an issue with the tie anchors for the rail though and the ones on that track bed are way too tall (hit the flanges) and too weak as well. I've since finished another print which I haven't bothered photographing, but the anchors are much better and will work, although I'll have to glue the rails to the roadbed as well as I don't think it'll take too much to break the anchors if they're the only thing holding the track in place.

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To cut the rail, I'm using a dremel, and I downloaded and printed a really handy chop saw I found on Thingiverse (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4950836). I designed and printed a rail cutting template so I can slip the rail in and have it supported while cutting which seems to work well (aside from my inability to measure correctly). It's a bit rough but it works, and I had to angle the rail away from the Dremel body as you can see also.

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I've also made a minor layout adjustment after a very handy tip from Sumner which gives me a little run around option when shunting (circled in red). I made room for the extra turnouts by shifting the turntable and roundhouse left a little, and rotated the roundhouse up a little to maintain clearance to the tracks. The only awkward part is that I've had to include a stub track beside the roundhouse long enough to hold a DH Class loco so I'll be able to get rolling stock on and off the top spur.

I really like this little modification, so thanks again Sumner!

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I've done more work on the turntable but nothing to post just yet, although the new base has finished printing, and an updated pit floor is printing as I type this. Now that I've figured out the tie anchors for the Peco track, I can finish designing the pit rail.

After that, what's left is to finish designing the bridge base to work with a central wiper under the pivot and wheel wipers, design the motor housing for the bridge, and design the bridge deck. Oh, and of course the pit wall and approach track bases!

Lots to do, but all fun!

[Sumner]

I have a vague recollection of an OLD magazine article where someone did use the sound jack for a center pivot.

Maybe this one.....

https://www.delmarvamodelrailroadclub.org/NeatStuff/TunTable/Turntable.html

I considered it but wanted more wires to the table. I ended up with a 4 wire slip ring ...

https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/Turntable/21-04-20%20Pit%20Bot-3.jpg

Two are for track current (on/off and reversing) and also the overhead light. The other two are for a shack light and a flashing warning light. To get the two lights off of just two wires I reverse the current through the LED's since they only light with the current going one way. I wish in retrospect I would of gone with a 6 wire slip ring as there was a couple more things I could of added or had more control over than what I did have. The slip rings aren't that expensive so I'd still consider that over the jack and I think it would be easier to use with the stepper motor vs. the jack.

More ( HERE (http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/Turntable/page-4.html) ) and a video with the lighting effects ( HERE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlzN-lLrXyM&t=6s) ).

Sumner

[badlandnp]

Now this is a neat thing. More pondering to do!

[peteGSX]

That's very neat indeed Sumner! I don't think that would work with the stepper I'm using though, and I only need the two contacts for the track. Our turntables here look like they had nothing fancy like lighting, just the air operated drive wheel on the turntable was it.

I've not been idle, just don't have much in the way of actual progress to report. I've basically been heads down, bum up in Fusion 360 trying to get this turntable design done, and I'm really close now. I had some issues with my 3D prints but realised I was treating the PLA+ filament wrong, and since reverting to treating it like PLA my prints are much improved again.

The issue I'm facing now is I have a lot of things printed but have introduced myself as a bottle neck as they're all awaiting post processing and paint, and given I'm back to work this week I don't have quite so much time available.

The other issue is that I've distracted myself by deciding to try designing a more prototypical roundhouse. The big difference? They use 7 degree spacing for the tracks around the turntable, which is making it a very close call with having locos being able to squeeze through the stall entries! The NMRA standard calls for 15mm either side of the rail centres for clearance, but the best I'll be able to get is about 11mm if I stick to prototypical dimensions. I measured the Atlas loco and it will just squeeze through. The local DH Class and the yet-to-be-designed 230 Class locos will be a little bit of an easier fit.

Once I get something substantial I'll post the exported image so you can see what I mean.

It will require minor layout adjustments, but I should end up with 8 stalls rather than 6.

[peteGSX]

Apologies for no updates and being very quiet, I've had myself distracted with other things and my head buried in Fusion 360 and the Arduino IDE lately. We're in our hot and humid time of year here, so getting into the garage at night to start post processing things and painting isn't an exciting proposition, so I've focused on my new roundhouse design and trying to finish up the turntable design.

The new roundhouse design is done aside from a few minor tweaks to help it print better for assembly, and the turntable still has a few bits and pieces left to design also. Once I figure out how to get some 3D images exported properly I'll post them up here while I start the printing process as well. I got a new roll of filament delivered the other day just in time!

My time in the Arduino IDE has been finishing up the DCC turntable code. The turntable positions are programmed as DCC CVs which means you can fine tune the track positions in place without having to worry about serial cables and a PC connection. The bridge track polarity can also be reversed by relays as part of the position definitions, meaning no need for a short-circuit detection type auto-reverser. The code is here if anyone's interested in taking a peak: https://github.com/peteGSX/programmable-dcc-turntable

Anyway, hopefully I'll be able to get some images up soon and with any luck get some actual movement happening!

Quick edit: I nearly forgot! I did actually achieve one thing which was (another) revision of my layout. This one was driven by the updated roundhouse design as well as realising the most economical way to purchase Rokuhan points is in pairs in the "Railset B Siding Set", and as I already own two additional right hand turnouts, it was prudent to mirror the layout meaning I need to purchase an even number of both, which is far more economical. I've also called it "Who Knows" for the moment as I'm no good at naming things...

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[peteGSX]

Hmm, I've still been quiet!

I've not been doing nothing, just not much progress to report as such. I've been making constant adjustments to the roundhouse design in Fusion 360 which is beginning to feel endless, and I haven't revisited the turntable yet either which requires some adjustments and needs finishing.

I've also successfully distracted myself by updating the turntable controller Arduino code so that it is now fully programmable to allow on-the-fly updates via DCC ops mode programming in order to fine tune track alignment without needing to update and upload a new code version. All the positions are stored in CVs just like a real professional DCC decoder. Pretty cool I reckon!

I even went so far as to put the decoder and regulator circuits onto a proper Uno prototyping shield to neaten it all up, and took a quick and dirty video of it in action with my draft turntable. What you can't see in the video is me clicking the turntable graphic in JMRI to select the turntable positions, sending those to the CommandStation as turnout commands.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YGT-oStaog

I want to incorporate an OLED display for visual confirmation of activities and programming but that's proving to be a bit more involved than I thought, it's on the way though.

I've also now got all my components to be able to control all the Rokuhan turnouts directly from the DCC++ EX CommandStation without needing a bank of Nanos. For those using that, it's been interesting to learn the capabilities, and especially interesting to learn that the new automation functionality with EX-RAIL will allow me to provide the very short duration pulse required to fire the Rokuhan turnouts successfully without burning the motor out.

124002

To cover the technical aspects off, I'll have 21 turnouts in total on the layout, which means 11 x L293D driver chips to control them (2 per chip), which will be controlled by MCP23017 PIO extension modules connected to the I2C bus on the CommandStation. This would typically require 3 MCP23017 pins per turnout to control (2 x inputs for direction, 1 x enable), but I've got some hex inverters to drive the inputs, meaning I'll only need two MCP23017 pins per turnout. The hex inverter will always ensure that the input pins are inverted to reverse the direction.

Track wise, I'm waiting on some Peco Z flex track to arrive at the local train store, and I'm also waiting on February's pay to order some Rokuhan track and turnouts. Those, combined with finishing up the turntable and roundhouse designs will let me get started on stage 1 of the layout. Can't wait!

[Jugtown Modeler]

Impressive and ambitious. Especially to a non-tech person like me. This will be very cool to see in operation when installed. ( cool now too...)

[peteGSX]

Cheers Steve, and to be honest this sort of stuff is one of the more exciting aspects for me too, so yeah, I have to agree it will indeed be very cool when installed :D

[peteGSX]

I finally figured out how to hide the joint icons in Fusion 360 which means I can finally export some bitmap images that are useful!

So, here's the roundhouse design, which is now complete aside from the track bed to join to the turntable edge which is still very much in progress (and tedious).

As best I can tell from the few photos I have, there were corrugated iron windows down low on the rear walls, and windows high up that don't seem to open. I'm assuming the low windows were more for ventilation and the high windows more for natural light.

In the inside view, you can see the inspection pits and various timber supports, which is all prototypically accurate as best I can tell.

The track guides are set up for the Peco Z flex track, and the floor height is all set to align that with the Rokuhan track bed on the rest of the layout. I'll cut the centre of the Peco ties out where the inspection pits go through, and will use some polystyrene on the rest of the inside to represent the concrete floor.

I suspect the corrugations in the rear walls and roof are too large for the correct scale, but I won't be able to print anything smaller than that on my 3D printer, so I'm happy with the compromise.

124023124024124025

[peteGSX]

Wow, no updates since February! Not only that, but I haven't logged in here for ages, which is really quite slack on my part.

Again, I've not been idle, but I have joined the DCC++ EX team and have been quite distracted by fun and interesting things there, which is great for getting some things sorted there like documentation, and getting a new integrated turntable controller (Turntable-EX) into beta testing, but it's not done much to get my layout happening.

I've got some things to do with that project that are taking a bit of time, but very soon I hope to resume progress on my layout, starting with finalising the round house and turntable designs so they can be printed, painted, and installed, which will really be the key to getting stage one under way.

[peteGSX]

Ok, so, many months too late, I have an update, albeit a very simple one.

I'm technically unemployed right now (my role was made redundant last week) so I'm going to have 4 or 5 weeks break and hope to get some progress on my layout done at last. I'm close to signing on the dotted line for my next role which should start in August.

I started today by taking the foam off the benchwork as I stuck it down with contact adhesive that just didn't work very well, and kept lifting at the corners.

This time, I've gone with some PVA wood glue instead, and have used every long clamp and heavy thing I could find in the garage to clamp/weigh it all down, and will leave them there for a few days.

Fingers crossed it holds this time!

[OTFan]

Glad to hear you found a new job already.

Hopefully the PVA wood glue holds well for you (it should...). If not, this stuff worked well for me: https://www.liquidnails.com/products/interior-projects-construction-adhesive#platform-statement

Just spread out a thin layer after applying. I have no idea if that specific stuff is available in Australia, you might have to look for the local equivalent.

[peteGSX]

Glad to hear you found a new job already.

Hopefully the PVA wood glue holds well for you (it should...). If not, this stuff worked well for me: https://www.liquidnails.com/products/interior-projects-construction-adhesive#platform-statement

Just spread out a thin layer after applying. I have no idea if that specific stuff is available in Australia, you might have to look for the local equivalent.

Cheers! The job market here is pretty good right now fortunately, lots of roles open, although if you're a hiring manager it's a nightmare because there aren't many quality candidates looking. I'm also very glad I've got the next role locked in so I can actually enjoy a break without worrying about finding the next job.

Good tip on the liquid nails, I've heard that elsewhere also and actually have some in the shed should I need it, the same product is available here.

Fingers crossed the PVA does the trick though, will let you all know later this week :)

[peteGSX]

Progress! Yes, real progress!

Good news number one is that taking all the weights and clamps off reveals nicely adhered foam, no more lifting of the corners. Yay!

So, yesterday I started working on getting my turntable pit rail sorted which I've been procrastinating on for a while. I 3D printed the ties and curved some Peco Z flex track, but just couldn't seem to pluck up the motivation to do the tedious post-processing of the 3D prints and install the rail.

Today, I managed to finish it! I have still yet to properly glue the rail to the ties and it's only glued in one spot to keep the circle permanently, and I have soldered the wires on, but I can at least sit it on the base and run the draft turntable bridge base around it to make sure it works, which it does. I'll finish gluing the rail down tomorrow, and will glue the ties to the base as well, and I can then prime/fill and paint.

126180

I also completed the 3D design and print of my turntable controller enclosure, which also includes a servo control module so I can run my decouplers from the same box (I'll be mounting magnets on the arms). You may recall my previous intention was to use my programmable DCC controller, however I've recently had the fun of introducing Turntable-EX to the DCC++ EX project which is a fully integrated controller with full automation capability, so I'll be using that instead now.

The enclosure has a clip-on lid as well which I'm pretty happy worked out.

126181 126182

The other success was finally finishing up the design for the power feeder for the Rokuhan track, meaning for the first time I'll finally be able to apply power once I solder some wires on!

The standard power feeder for the track is chunky, ugly, and will not fit in on my layout.

126183

Instead of that, my design protrudes 1mm out the side of the roadbed, just enough to allow the brass contacts to get routed down, through the foam, to where they'll connect to the wiring under the benchwork. I printed a bending template for the contacts as well, which are made out of 0.3mm thick brass sheet.

126184 126185

All in all a very productive day, fingers crossed I can keep this progress up as that will let me get a fair bit done before starting my new job in August.

[el Gato Gordo]

Glad to see your update and progress, Pete!

[Sumner]

Nice progress Pete. Appreciate all the work you are doing with DCC++ in addition to sharing this,

Sumner

[peteGSX]

Sorry all, I've been rather distracted doing many things and have once again neglected to log in here or update my thread!

I will have to get some proper photos and a proper update done some time this week, but my layout has progress to all the track being laid out, with the turnout wires and feeder wires run through ready to be wired up. I've connected the turnouts to my controller and my DCC-EX CommandStation operates them well. So, yes, I have definitely made some progress!

I have, in the meantime, assembled a small test loop which is somewhat operational, although I need to add some sensors yet and possibly some signals. It does have a working version of the turntable in miniature form though.

I've also decided I'm going to add a mimic panel to my layout, which will integrate fully with the EX-RAIL automation capabilities of DCC-EX, so I will have a fully digital layout, but with old-school manual control available.

I also managed to design an Nn3-ish scale shell for my Rokuhan Shorty power chassis' which is meant to resemble our Queensland Rail 2000 class railcar, and it actually turned out pretty well. I need to do some more refinements yet, particularly with respect to the headlight. There are two 0.5mm holes for the headlight, with fibre optics running to an LED inside, and I added some cut down motorcycle wheel weights as well. Again, I am lacking in photos!

For the moment, here's a quick and dirty video of my test track in action with one of those Rokuhan Shortys in use. Note the bridge track needs some refinement, it's not perfectly level.


https://youtu.be/Zz1iJ1XTEhY

Also, a quick video of the mimic panel throttle I've designed and printed using 3 slide potentiometers so I can control up to three locos with it.


https://youtu.be/uzAAL3OKxE0

[Sumner]

Very nice, how about more about the throttle? Are you going to get some documentation up on it?

Also I'm aware of the EX-TurnTable along with its connection to DCC++EX probably more than some on here as I've been checking in on Discord from time to time. How about a short overview of what it is all about for the guys here also. Nice work on both,

Sumner

[sid]

interesting on the throttle ......:)

[peteGSX]

Very nice, how about more about the throttle? Are you going to get some documentation up on it?


interesting on the throttle ......:)

Ah yes, sorry, that was definitely a bit of a teaser! :D

The throttle is designed specifically for DCC-EX using the API commands, runs off an Arduino Nano, and connects to a serial port on the CommandStation. I do have the code publicly available in my GitHub account (https://github.com/peteGSX-Projects/dcc-ex-serial-throttle), but please be aware right now it is very much a work-in-progress and has a very long way to go to being useful for anyone else. I just haven't had the time to work on the code like I need to.

Here's the back side of the throttle:

126983

I designed the panel mount in Fusion360 and printed it to go with the various components I had available locally here.

Right now, the downside with the throttle is that the loco addresses are hard coded in the software, and the only functions available on the keypad are changing direction, turning the headlight on and off, turning track power on and off, and sending an emergency stop.

My first priority when I get back to it is to enable entering loco addresses via the keypad, and then being able to read the roster information from the CommandStation so you can select from what's available.

For documentation, I will definitely be providing some including a Fritzing diagram to help with assembly etc., but I've only just briefly started so it's not published yet.

Unfortunately, I've had too many distractions and other priorities lately, so a lot of my own layout progress has stalled, as has a lot of my input to the DCC-EX project.



Also I'm aware of the EX-TurnTable along with its connection to DCC++EX probably more than some on here as I've been checking in on Discord from time to time. How about a short overview of what it is all about for the guys here also. Nice work on both,

Sumner

Good point Sumner, and great idea! Always happy to share on EX-Turntable!

For those who are interested, EX-Turntable is a new (Beta) part of the DCC-EX project, and is an integrated turntable controller for a CommandStation, and can be fully automated using the new EX-RAIL capabilities as well. There's a bunch of documentation available on it on the DCC-EX website (https://dcc-ex.com/ex-turntable/index.html), but in essence it just uses an additional Arduino microcontroller along with a stepper driver and motor to control a turntable. It also has a traverser mode for those using horizontal or vertical traversers in staging or fiddle yards, as well as catering for turntables that don't rotate a full 360 degrees.

My own turntable is back in the design phase again as I decided my initial plan of making brass wipers and using the pit rail as a live DCC power source was getting too fiddly and complicated, so I chose to take Sumner's approach and use a slip ring instead. I've got one in use on the tiny turntable in the video, but I need to refactor my actual layout turntable design to use that yet.

I also just realised I have a reasonably recent photo of the layout after all my track arrived, although this is prior to running the turntable wires through to the controller, and prior to adding the feeder wires, but you can at least see the layout now in reality instead of just XTrackCAD!

126982

More than happy to answer any other questions on the throttle and turntable topics. I'll be away for a (probably very wet) long weekend motorcycle trip this weekend but hope to get back into some real progress again soon.

[peteGSX]

Very quick extra update: the documentation for the serial throttle will live in my GitHub pages site (https://petegsx-projects.github.io/serial-throttle/index.html), made a very brief start for now.

[Sumner]

Thanks, good info Pete!


The throttle is designed specifically for DCC-EX using the API commands, runs off an Arduino Nano, and connects to a serial port on the CommandStation.

So would a battery and a $5.00 ESP8266 connected to the Nano's TX/RX pins and a few added lines of code for the WiFi turn the throttle into a wireless one?
I'm interested :). Maybe also post this info over in the DCC section here and add to it as the project progresses.

Sumner

[sid]

just friggin AWESOME . one day when im rich i can have a nice shop. i miss my shop sooo much......i love new styles of throttles ect for DCC++EX ect. seeing new kinds of builds getting new ideas. Just wonderful i tell ya.......
getting more people to share or at least show what they have done to make this system better is very good for all of us hobby people and more importantly N scale setups:)
lots of good ideas out there and i for one am very happy people are sharing there wonderful knowledge. its like walking down the street and seeing this fellow out side sitting in his chair on the porch with a glass of iced tea and you stop to say hello and the next thing you know you talking about every thing next thing you know its late but you have learned a lot from all his experiences in the world. aww yes nothing like B/Sing with some cold ice tea.
Thank you all........

[peteGSX]

Thanks, good info Pete!



So would a battery and a $5.00 ESP8266 connected to the Nano's TX/RX pins and a few added lines of code for the WiFi turn the throttle into a wireless one?
I'm interested :). Maybe also post this info over in the DCC section here and add to it as the project progresses.

Sumner



Hmmm good question! I've not looked into a wireless option, however my test setup will have Bluetooth on it using the HC-05 master device, and a HC-06 slave device will be on my test setup's CommandStation. I did some doco for the DCC-EX website on this the other day actually: https://dcc-ex.com/reference/hardware/bluetooth/hc-05-06.html. That gives wireless capability, but only from one specific device to the CommandStation. If you use EngineDriver however, you should be able to pair with the CommandStation and use it I believe (haven't tested that yet).

I'll have to get my hands on another WiFi module at some point and give that a try also.

I think a 9V battery connected to VIN on the Nano would do the job nicely too.

I'll be off for a few days now on my trip, and my home situation changed a bit this week (nothing bad, just awkward) meaning I had to relocate all my testing/experimenting stuff into the garage in boxes temporarily, so not sure when I'll get back to progress at the moment. On the plus side, that might be the kick in the pants I need to start on my layout wiring and finish up my mimic panel design ready to start building it.

[peteGSX]

just friggin AWESOME . one day when im rich i can have a nice shop. i miss my shop sooo much......i love new styles of throttles ect for DCC++EX ect. seeing new kinds of builds getting new ideas. Just wonderful i tell ya.......
getting more people to share or at least show what they have done to make this system better is very good for all of us hobby people and more importantly N scale setups:)
lots of good ideas out there and i for one am very happy people are sharing there wonderful knowledge. its like walking down the street and seeing this fellow out side sitting in his chair on the porch with a glass of iced tea and you stop to say hello and the next thing you know you talking about every thing next thing you know its late but you have learned a lot from all his experiences in the world. aww yes nothing like B/Sing with some cold ice tea.
Thank you all........

You know that's a pretty spot on analogy for things like these forums Sid!

I have learnt so much from others that I feel it's only right to give back where I can, so sharing knowledge, ideas, and (sometimes most importantly) failings so others can learn is the right way to go.

That's one reason I joined the DCC-EX team as while I can't really contribute to the core software, I can definitely help out with the documentation and some behind the scenes stuff that the guys doing the development don't have time to do.

With your shop comment, I'm pretty much out of room now! :D My layout lives in the garage on my side of our two car garage, and squeezes in with my two bikes and the workshop. As I just mentioned in my reply to Sumner I've temporarily lost my experimenting location which I had next to my laptop here, but I hope to have a solution to that sometime soon. I did a huge clean up of my workbench over the last week or so and that alone has helped so much.

[peteGSX]

Oh wow, my last update was almost 6 months ago! Apologies for going silent again.

Yes, I've been busy. No, not so much on my layout until very recently.

If you follow (or better yet, use!) the DCC-EX (http://dcc-ex.com) open-source project at all, that's where my busy-ness has been aside from work. There's been a heap of time spent adding new features and capabilities there along with documentation updates and so forth. We even added a news feed.

Anyway, on to the layout stuff, which has had progress, but also somewhat going back to stage one.

I had to do some bike maintenance a couple of weeks ago, and I put my benchwork on castors to be able to get it out of the way, however this is the first time I've had to move it to do any maintenance activities. End result? My layout was just too large to work around easily, and moving out of the way of getting to the bike properly just made it hard to get to my tools, so I had to make the tough choice to shrink it significantly and come up with a new design. The final size is 1050mm x 820mm. An odd size, but it let me minimise the cuts I needed to make, and I didn't need to dismantle it entirely either. For you US folk that makes it a tiny bit larger than the traditional 2' x 4' size :)

After some time in XtrackCAD I came up with a new design I'm pretty happy with, as it still gives me most of what I wanted with continuous running, a shunting yard, a couple of industry sidings, and of course my turntable.

129840

Leading up to the Easter long weekend I disconnected all the track feeders, pulled up the track, and removed the foam ready to start dismantling, and got stuck into it on Good Friday. You can see here how much smaller it is. The frame rails on top are the size of the old benchwork, sitting on top of the shrunken base on castors.

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The good news with the smaller layout is I was able to get the foam all glued down in one go using the plywood I cut off, along with every clamp and heavy thing I could find.

129842

Definitely happy with the new design, and of course I already have all the required track pieces.

129843

I got to a point a couple of nights ago where all the holes were drilled for the track power feeders and point wiring allowing me to sit the track in place ready to wire up again.

129844 129845

Last night I got all the terminal blocks screwed in place under the benchwork along with just under half of the track feeders connected. No photo yet but will likely finish that tonight I hope.

I reckon come Sunday I might be able to test run a train!

[Sumner]

I reckon come Sunday I might be able to test run a train!

And of course we are going to need to see a video of that ;).

It all looks good and looks like you still have all that you wanted. I'm looking forward to seeing the turntable turning. Thanks for all the work you have done getting turntable control into DCC-EX. Not sure any other DCC command station has that capability, pretty impressive.

Sumner

[peteGSX]

Haha yes, video definitely required! I should be able to do that... I only have my one single Nn3-ish loco at the moment of course but it will serve the purpose!

Really glad I got that turntable functionality in, and I really can't wait to finish my re-design and get it installed on the layout. I find turntables add such interesting extra operational capability and really want that in there.

[ChicagoNW]

Great work!

That’s the first time I’ve seen the Rz tracks. At first I thought you were using Tomix Fine Track.
Fine work on cutting a MRC Command 2000 in half and improving it.

Is your critter a true boxcab or a fantom power unit? Can you post a picture of just the chassis?

[peteGSX]

Cheers!

This is my first layout so while I can't really compare too much, I have an oval of Micro-Trains Z track and much prefer the Rokuhan. I find it a bit sturdier and easier to assemble. The ties are a bit more realistic spacing for Nn3 also.

The chassis is a Rokuhan Shorty power chassis: Rokuhan SA001-1 Powered Motor Chassis A Type | Z Shorty (ztrackcenter.com) (http://www.ztrackcenter.com/SA001-1)

The shell on top is one I designed in Fusion360 and 3D printed. It's based on a local Queensland Rail 2000 class rail motor (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queensland_Railways_2000_class_rail_motor) although shortened significantly to just sit on the Rokuhan chassis, and I haven't got the shape of the front quite right yet either.

My plan is to design a proper scale chassis, and then use a modified Shorty chassis underneath it as the axle centres are pretty close, and the wheels are only about 1/2mm too small which is close enough for me. This will form my passenger service, and I have other plans for locos for freight and shunting duties.

[ChicagoNW]

Thanks for the information!

That chassis does compare favorably with the Kato Pocket/B-Train Shorty chassis.
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/search?typ1_c=104&cat=rail&state=&sold=0&sortid=6&searchkey=kato+shorty
The wheels on the unpowered bogies might fit your Shorty.

These are another candidate https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10311083 Because these have the plastic axle they may also be useful. These may be 5.6mm in diameter.

By the way, https://www.nscale.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88883&d=1492235304 is my pusher for all things Japanese. Buying directly has been much cheaper.

For comparison here’s a picture of Tomix Track, you’ll see how similar the standard guage compares to your narrow stuff…
https://www.nscale.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=129681&d=1679724454
The tan track is just the oldest version of the track.

I know you are modeling N narrow, but which scale? 1/148(British), 1/150(Japanese Nn) 1/160(Europe, North America, High Speed Japan) or that odd 2mm=1foot (somewhere in Europe) All use the same nine millimeter wide track, but Japan and Britain are also narrow guage but bigger models(not too much).

[peteGSX]

129847

I got all feeders connected last night, the point wires connected to the controller, and both main and programming track wires connected to my EX-CommandStation.

I should only need an hour or two before I can test run a train I reckon. All that's needed is to get the command station and point controller connected, find a suitable location to mount the power board and power supply, and then give the track a clean. This is cool!


Thanks for the information!

That chassis does compare favorably with the Kato Pocket/B-Train Shorty chassis.
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/search?typ1_c=104&cat=rail&state=&sold=0&sortid=6&searchkey=kato+shorty
The wheels on the unpowered bogies might fit your Shorty.

These are another candidate https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/10311083 Because these have the plastic axle they may also be useful. These may be 5.6mm in diameter.

By the way, https://www.nscale.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=88883&d=1492235304 is my pusher for all things Japanese. Buying directly has been much cheaper.

For comparison here’s a picture of Tomix Track, you’ll see how similar the standard guage compares to your narrow stuff…
https://www.nscale.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=129681&d=1679724454
The tan track is just the oldest version of the track.

I know you are modeling N narrow, but which scale? 1/148(British), 1/150(Japanese Nn) 1/160(Europe, North America, High Speed Japan) or that odd 2mm=1foot (somewhere in Europe) All use the same nine millimeter wide track, but Japan and Britain are also narrow guage but bigger models(not too much).

Ah yes, I did see that Kato chassis briefly in my searching around, and I have some Kato wheelsets here that may suit some of my rolling stock also. They're a touch too big for the QR 2000 class though, same with the Tomytec wheelsets. They use a fairly small wheel (2' 6").

Yes, that track is pretty close, and purchase wise I've used Rokuhan directly, Hobby Search, and Plaza Japan and had good success with all three.

For scale, I'm sticking with 1:160 as that seemed right for here in Australia.

[ChicagoNW]

Here’s a website with the traction (electric) related chassis. Several different wheel sizes are listed. http://www.trainweb.org/tomix/chassis_dim.htm Many have been used for Diesels too.

According to randgust https://www.nscale.net/forums/showthread.php?31760-Trackmobile/page2 the Kato B-Train Shorty wheels are 27”, slightly smaller than your prototype.

Standard NA freight cars use 33” wheels, while passenger cars use 36” ones.

[ChicagoNW]

Since you have the printer and are going compact. You might want to build your controls into a structure on the layout. Like this…
https://www.nscale.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12467&d=1298426321
Others have mounted the controls inside the building exposed or with a moveable roof.

[peteGSX]

Ah thanks for those links, very helpful indeed! I've not found it easy to find wheel diameters typically.

I've acquired some wheelsets locally from Gopher Models/BadgerBits (https://gophermodels.com.au/) that should be pretty correct for the 33" and 36" sizes for my rolling stock when I get to that point. I'll need to cut the axles to re-gauge of course, and plan to just use a plastic spacer to join them again, which should let me make small adjustments and get the gauge right.

Interesting idea on locating the controls also!

My plan is to have a mimic panel at this point, but that is a very interesting idea that I like... I'll have to consider if I change my mimic panel plans slightly ;)

[peteGSX]

I did manage to run a train this morning, yay!

I got everything connected and powered up and can use Engine Driver to happily control all my points.

Unfortunately on my initial test, my almost completed Rokuhan Shorty decided to stop running. Not sure why yet, the headlight still turns on and off so it's getting power and the decoder is at least somewhat functional. It could be a dodgy motor connection, hopefully not a motor output or motor fault.

I had to resort to running another Shorty chassis I started a decoder install on but haven't finished it yet, and the shell is nowhere near finished yet either. I tacked some weights on top as these have serious lack of weight issues, so it runs ok, but the track is still quite dirty as you'll see in the video.


https://youtu.be/pTzFQ3qUVWE

[Sumner]

Nice, and tell us more about the throttle you are using. Are you using EngineDriver on a phone to control the points and then a separate hand throttle?

Sumner

[Stu]

but the track is still quite dirty

Happens to us all. Here's what works for many o us: https://www.nscale.net/forums/showthread.php?18676-Track-cleaning-Linn-Westcott-and-No-Ox

[peteGSX]

Nice, and tell us more about the throttle you are using. Are you using EngineDriver on a phone to control the points and then a separate hand throttle?

Sumner

Cheers Sumner!

Ah yes I neglected to mention the hand-held throttle in use. I'm using WiTcontroller (https://dcc-ex.com/throttles/hardware/witcontroller.html) there which was written by the same guy who works on Engine Driver, and I designed a reasonably ergonomic 3D case for it in Fusion360 which makes it pretty nice to hold in one hand.

I have a cheap and horrible 8" Android tablet I have Engine Driver on, so use that to control the points and routes, and WiTcontroller to control the loco.

I'll primarily use my mimic panel when I get to that point as well as WiTcontroller, but in the meantime will use Engine Driver.


Happens to us all. Here's what works for many o us: https://www.nscale.net/forums/showthread.php?18676-Track-cleaning-Linn-Westcott-and-No-Ox

Thanks Stu, I haven't seen that thread before! The track is basically brand new but because it sits in the garage it gets dirty quick smart. I also really should devise some sort of cover to put over it when not in use.

[Sumner]

I'm using WiTcontroller

Thanks I did see that before and will probably consider making one at some time although the instructions are a little above me but think I can do it if I get back into Arduino mode. Been a couple years since I did the work on the turntable controls but guess it will all come back. Looking quickly at the wiring I didn't see the battery and charging circuit.

Nice job on the case,

Sumner

[peteGSX]

Thanks I did see that before and will probably consider making one at some time although the instructions are a little above me but think I can do it if I get back into Arduino mode. Been a couple years since I did the work on the turntable controls but guess it will all come back. Looking quickly at the wiring I didn't see the battery and charging circuit.

Nice job on the case,

Sumner

Cool, it's a very handy throttle for very little money! Provided you buy the right ESP32 form factor, it has the battery connector and charging circuit built in, so you just need a suitable LiPO battery to connect to it.

I'm very happy with how the enclosure turned out too, and I was happy enough printing it on my Ender 3 V2. I've not bothered doing any post processing aside from moving supports and a very light sanding, but Peter (who wrote the software) went to the next level, smoothed it all, and painted it so it's a very nice finished product.

[Sumner]

Provided you buy the right ESP32 form factor

Thanks is this the right one ( HERE (https://www.amazon.com/CANADUINO-LOLIN32-Bluetooth-MicroPython-Installed/dp/B07MK1WF91/ref=sr_1_3?hvadid=642365117700&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9029831&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=10971568696224683123&hvtargid=kwd-1021514628133&hydadcr=24363_13517587&keywords=esp32+with+battery+charger&qid=1681788064&sr=8-3) )?

I might try this if I can get through the 'loading the code' (https://github.com/flash62au/WiTcontroller#readme). Not sure what it gets me over the phone and EngineDriver, which I love all the options you have but looks cool and the phone throttle (at least mine) doesn't run a long time on the battery but might be the old battery in the old phone.

Sumner

[peteGSX]

Thanks is this the right one ( HERE (https://www.amazon.com/CANADUINO-LOLIN32-Bluetooth-MicroPython-Installed/dp/B07MK1WF91/ref=sr_1_3?hvadid=642365117700&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9029831&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=10971568696224683123&hvtargid=kwd-1021514628133&hydadcr=24363_13517587&keywords=esp32+with+battery+charger&qid=1681788064&sr=8-3) )?

I might try this if I can get through the 'loading the code' (https://github.com/flash62au/WiTcontroller#readme). Not sure what it gets me over the phone and EngineDriver, which I love all the options you have but looks cool and the phone throttle (at least mine) doesn't run a long time on the battery but might be the old battery in the old phone.

Sumner

Yep that looks like the one.

The things to be cautious of with enclosure fitment are the rotary encoder and keypad.

If you can find a keypad that has the same dimensions as this one then it'll screw straight in: 12 Key Numeric Keypad | Jaycar Electronics (https://www.jaycar.com.au/12-key-numeric-keypad/p/SP0770?pos=2&queryId=1753ed4b648b80506f31b74a29294707)

With the rotary encoder, there are variances... my recommendation is to source one that has a thread on the rotary encoder body itself rather than use the PCB screw holes. I couldn't find any myself unfortunately but Peter did and it's a much more solid mount.

In terms of what it gets you is going to depend on personal preferences really.

For me, because my tablet is horrendously slow and painful (and also has a short battery life), I find it too awkward to swipe between the turnout and throttle screens, so I like having that separate walkaround dedicated throttle I can operate with one hand.

[Sumner]

Pete do you see an issue of running this screen (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MRR4LVE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A30QSGOJR8LMXA&th=1) other than the size?

I realize it won't fit your case and the keyboard I'm getting (https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/sparkfun-electronics/COM-14662/8702491) probably won't either but I think I'll design a case a bit different to try (at least at first).

I'm not trying to throw switches from the handheld throttle. It will only be used as a throttle so don't see a need for my application to make it a one hand throttle although I can see where that is really handy for you. I like the physical knob on my phone throttle on the front but might try the screen at the top then the knob with the keyboard at the bottom.

Thanks,

Sumner

[peteGSX]

As far as I'm aware any of those I2C connected OLEDs should work, but yes, that form factor won't work in the case as you've pointed out, but no stress if you're doing your own there.

For the case, I started by using a Form in Fusion360, which I then just pushed/pulled and played with until I got a shape that looked like it would be nice to hold, and after that I hollowed it out and started figuring out the internal dimensions required that dictated the overall size.

Everyone needs controls that suit their style and preferences, which is why I like this Arduino and 3D printing world so much. You can make pretty much whatever suits you :)

As much as we live in a digital world now, I still really prefer a combination of digital and tactile, hence a knob or sliders for a throttle over a touch screen, and physical switches and LEDs on a mimic panel over a touch screen as well.

Of course the beauty of DCC-EX and using the right sort of switches on my mimic panel will mean if I want to be lazy and just watch trains run, I can automate the layout, yet still retain the physical control I want for manual operations.

[Sumner]

Thanks, never used the forms tool before. Just watched a video on it and messed with it a little. Nice to know about it. I imagine I'm using less than 5% of what Fusion can do. What do you use to hollow it out to a uniform thickness from the outer surface in?

Think I'll order parts for the throttle. Looks to be under $25-30 per throttle. Hope to use it more than the phone throttle while testing turnouts, track and electrical as I build. Probably get the ESP32 from China to keep the cost down and will get 2 in case I want to end up building two. Looks like they would go together pretty fast. I got the parts to do Dave's wireless throttle a couple years ago and put it off and put it off so never did. This is less complicated and looks a lot more powerful.

Sumner

[peteGSX]

Yeah I'm nowhere near using all the capabilities of Fusion360 either! It's a very powerful tool. To hollow the shape there's a Shell tool I used from memory which lets you set a thickness for the enclosure sides if I recall correctly. It's been a while and I haven't actually touched Fusion for a while. I need to change that soon and finish my turntable re-design though!

Yes the throttle parts really are quite inexpensive, and building more than one is not an expensive proposition at all. Using the WiThrottle protocol means you can read a roster of locos from a command station, and same with routes and turnouts if you so wish.

[Sumner]

https://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/RR-misc/23-04-19%20Fusion%20Form-Shell-1.jpg

Thanks, 'forms' and 'shell' very cool and easy to use. Fusion 360....love it,

Sumner

[Sumner]

Got enough parts to make two throttles. Hope I can figure out all the downloads and uploads.
EngineDriver sees my roster that I created with JMRI and DecoderPro. Will this throttle see the roster or do I need to set it up in a config file?

Sumner

[peteGSX]

Ah excellent! Yes, this will see the roster, it uses the WiThrottle protocol like Engine Driver so things like that are still functional, and Peter Akers who wrote the software also maintains Engine Driver. He's also on Discord under "flash62au" if you need help as well :)

[peteGSX]

Not a great deal to update but I've made a minor revision to the layout design by adding an additional siding to allow loading of containers and other freight, as well as relocating the car loading ramp to a different siding.

I've also started figuring out where I want buildings and roads to run, although I need to figure out how to draw curved shapes that are filled in XTrackCAD to properly represent the roads.

129915

There'll be three stations for the passenger service, and likely a raised walkway to cross the tracks into the industrial area.

I added the warehouse over the top siding where a freight car can enter, and there'll be forklift options to load other cars on that siding.

The yellow boxes are 40' containers, representing where there might be a stack of them, and one ready to be loaded. My initial plan on the larger layout was an intermodal type gantry crane, but I don't have room for that now, so will instead just have a container forklift. I'm having a lot of trouble finding one in N scale though! Ideally I'd like to 3D print my own but will buy one if necessary.

There'll also be a couple of smaller warehouses or distribution centres along the edge of the track, and likely a concrete pad in front of them on the side of the road for loading/unloading trucks, as well as a holding yard for cars to be loaded onto the auto transporters via the loading ramp.

I also added the signal house at the entrance to the shunting yard.

The road will run from the bottom left over a level crossing, around the back of the round house and then around past the turntable to meet with the little bit of road I've added in the top right with another level crossing across both tracks there.

In the meantime I'm sorting out my 3D printer woes so I can get back to printing again, although using the bed I got after discussing with Sumner in his thread things are looking far more promising there, thanks Sumner!

[ChicagoNW]

Well, here’s a quick look at some equipment…
https://trainsnscale.com/cranes-and-loaders/-40
https://midwestmodelrr.com/scm21/
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/search?typ1_c=104&cat=rail&state=&searchkey=fork&sold=1 Tomix version needs weights added inside body to balance container on forks.
https://www.plazajapan.com/4949727678405/?setCurrencyId=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxMrq-83D_gIV5u7jBx2KpgKQEAQYAyABEgIfmvD_BwE
https://www.walthers.com/mi-jack-translift-r-intermodal-crane-kit-4-x-3-1-8-x-3-quot-10-1-x-7-9-x-7-6cm
https://www.wheelsotime.com/pc-90-piggy-packer/

We do kinda cover the intermodal scene…
https://www.nscale.net/forums/archive/index.php/f-81.html

While you may want to design and print everything on the layout. Each element you add to the list only delays your ability to have a running layout. While animation adds interest. Something like container loading can be boring as only one container gets transferred back and forth.

I understand how tough it can be to model outside the mainstream. Many unique trains run or have run in and around Chicago. Some may never be modeled in N, but with patience, a bit of effort and a lot of time. It can be done. Ask me about L cars.

[peteGSX]

Well, here’s a quick look at some equipment…
https://trainsnscale.com/cranes-and-loaders/-40
https://midwestmodelrr.com/scm21/
https://www.1999.co.jp/eng/m/search?typ1_c=104&cat=rail&state=&searchkey=fork&sold=1 Tomix version needs weights added inside body to balance container on forks.
https://www.plazajapan.com/4949727678405/?setCurrencyId=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxMrq-83D_gIV5u7jBx2KpgKQEAQYAyABEgIfmvD_BwE
https://www.walthers.com/mi-jack-translift-r-intermodal-crane-kit-4-x-3-1-8-x-3-quot-10-1-x-7-9-x-7-6cm
https://www.wheelsotime.com/pc-90-piggy-packer/

We do kinda cover the intermodal scene…
https://www.nscale.net/forums/archive/index.php/f-81.html

While you may want to design and print everything on the layout. Each element you add to the list only delays your ability to have a running layout. While animation adds interest. Something like container loading can be boring as only one container gets transferred back and forth.

I understand how tough it can be to model outside the mainstream. Many unique trains run or have run in and around Chicago. Some may never be modeled in N, but with patience, a bit of effort and a lot of time. It can be done. Ask me about L cars.


Aaaah thank you kindly sir! I had completely missed the fact we have an intermodal sub-forum, I'm going to have to check that out!

I hadn't found those options earlier either, although I do note some on Plaza Japan and Hobby Search tend to be 1:150 whereas I'm doing 1:160... not sure how much of an impact that will have in reality but preferable to stick with the same is I can.

I have some more forum trawling to do now :)

[peteGSX]

I gave up trying to figure out how to draw curved roads in XTrackCAD so you'll need to imagine curves rather than straight lines and angles, but this should give an idea of what I'm thinking for buildings and roads on the layout.

I'm hoping to get some cardboard mock ups done to test placement soon.

129960

I've also made the decision to make a somewhat larger re-design of my turntable setup. I got a coupler to connect a 5mm shaft to my stepper motor this week but realised it just doesn't grasp the short shaft on the 28BYJ-48 stepper motor, so I'll use my NEMA17 stepper instead. It's way more than I need from the torque perspective, but will allow for using the shaft coupler along with the slip ring to power the bridge track.

No photos just yet but will share once I have a new design sorted, and I can then cut the foam etc. as well.

[ChicagoNW]

I don’t know if this works for XtraCad but I before I started using slot car track for roads in RailRoad Modeller (for Macs), I would create curves by layering different color shapes. By covering parts of one shape with others colored like the background, I would get results like this…
https://www.nscale.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=56158&d=1394730784
The extra outlines are fairly easy to ignore. Before I discovered the circle method I just used multiple very short angled boxes.
https://www.nscale.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14535&d=1304290631
The technique also works for other details. RM doesn’t have a library for structures or details other than trees. The program can be used to design slot car tracks. That where the street tracks come from. In 3D views the tracks and slot car roads remain but all the colored polygons disappear. I use the original version of RailRoad Modeller. A new Pro version is currently available for newer Macs.

[peteGSX]

Ah cool, I didn't think to try layering different shapes, but that's a great idea!

I spent a little time on the layout over the long weekend here, and a lot of time on getting my 3D printer operational again.

With regards to the printer, turns out I had multiple issues in the end between my original build plate not able to be levelled any more due to the coating wearing off in the centre, issues with the bowden tube and couplers not holding the tube in place, and now discovering that the front guide wheels on the bed were loose, allowing it to move slightly at the front.

Between addressing all those items, using the same magnetic build plate Sumner is using, and spending a lot of time on levelling the build plate, I'm now back in business!

I was able to successfully print a 40' shipping container to start getting some idea of scale on my layout (just in "standard" 0.2mm layer height):

130019

I also made some cardboard templates of the buildings I know I'll be using on the layout. The larger is an N scale warehouse I found on Thingiverse, but I've raised the roof as the model is too low for N scale clearance. The smaller building is likely to be Sumner's distribution centre which seems like a good fit also.

The rectangular piece of cardboard is for another industry/business I haven't decided on yet.

The container is sitting where I expect a container forklift will be located for loading/unloading, and as you can see I've added the extra siding here as well as getting it wired in.

There's a signal tower I found on Thingiverse sitting where the final one will be, but I aim to design and print one that's more like what we had here at the time.

I also marked out the road in brown paper for the moment. I managed to locate the kerb dimensions we use here so my plan is to 3D print the kerbs to get the right curves for the road and then use some styrene sheet for the road surface itself. The standards for driveways are available to so I can locate proper driveways into the industries as well.

130020

I've started work on the turntable re-design now also, so hopefully I'll be able to get that installed before too long. I printed the updated bridge base successfully yesterday, but it needs a lot of post-processing yet so no photos at this point.

There's such a long way to go yet but I'm really happy I can start seeing how it will look now.

I do need to get back to designing locos and rolling stock soon though, and I have yet to figure out why my little Shorty stopped running yet too.

[ChicagoNW]

For those of us who don’t own 3D printers, could you describe and photograph the process. It doesn’t have to include all the intricate details. But the major steps would help us to understand what it takes to create your models. When you and Summer get going, it can be like hearing Martian.

[peteGSX]

For those of us who don’t own 3D printers, could you describe and photograph the process. It doesn’t have to include all the intricate details. But the major steps would help us to understand what it takes to create your models. When you and Summer get going, it can be like hearing Martian.

Happy to do so... but when you say the process, are you referring to the printing process, or the entire design/slice/print process or anything more specific? There are heaps of YouTube videos I could point you to also, but I suspect that's probably not what you're looking for... or are you just after an overall view of how we go from idea to design, to printed end result?

On a completely separate topic and just to report because it makes me feel very satisfied... I printed successfully, first go, a device to attach to the end of my digital vernier calipers to measure the radius of a curve. Why? So I can measure the radius of the curves of the road I've laid out to be able to design and print the kerbs. No photo yet, but I shall share once I have some.

[ChicagoNW]

A general overview would be nice.

You keep writing that “your models need clean up.” But as I understand the “wire” type printers are very clean. It’s not like you are working with FUD (Shapeways-Ultra Fine Detail UV resin). Molding things like the sprues needed to join multiple parts would just be wasted plastic, so why print them.

[peteGSX]

A general overview would be nice.

You keep writing that “your models need clean up.” But as I understand the “wire” type printers are very clean. It’s not like you are working with FUD (Shapeways-Ultra Fine Detail UV resin). Molding things like the sprues needed to join multiple parts would just be wasted plastic, so why print them.

Got you! I'm just in the process of finishing the design for the turntable and printing it, so I'll use that to hopefully cover that off for you.

With FDM as opposed to resin based printing, there is a lot of excess filament in the end result due to "stringing" (where the heated filament continues oozing out forming very thin threads), and also from needing to use support material depending on the model. This is required where printing a design would require laying down filament above the build surface in mid air.

[peteGSX]

Over the last week I've managed to do a few different things.

Firstly, I finished the design in Fusion 360 for the turntable pit and track bed that will attach to it. The main structure of the bridge is pretty much done as well, but I still have yet to re-design the main driving wheel and motor housing which attaches to one end of the bridge.

The two track beds on the right are designed to connect to the Rokuhan track bed. One connects to the shunting yard, and the other is a storage track for what I envision will be self-propelled maintenance vehicles (although I haven't actually found designs for any local ones yet!). I'll cut some Peco Z flex track to glue to them.

The track bed on the left is designed to just sit Peco Z flex track in which will extend into the roundhouse. If you look closely at the edge of the turntable pit though, you'll see I'm going to need to create some Vs with the rails and join them. The turntable I'm modelling appears to have only 7 degrees between tracks going by the sketches of it I've found. I will use relays to ensure the correct polarity of the DCC signal goes to the correct rail depending on the position of the turntable bridge. I'm going to use DCC-EX's EXRAIL automation capabilities for this, which I'll share details of when I figure that part out :)

130064

I've now been able to print the pit and those track beds also, and all need some sort of post processing. Note that the pit floor in this photo is the existing one from the last design which I'll need to re-print as it now has a larger hole to accommodate the wires from the slip ring.

130065

In terms of post processing, you can see the stringing between the ties on the track bed here, which will need to be carefully cleaned up with a sharp blade.

When printing, there's a setting for what's called "retraction", which is where the printer retracts the filament when moving without printing to try to avoid stringing like this, however if you keep doing that retraction over the same peice of filament, the extruder wheels distort the shape of the filament, and do it too much and the filament will actually break. Been there, done that!

130066

Underneath I need to remove the support material (circled in red) I added to the design to ensure the cavity for the Rokuhan track bed joiner prints correctly. If I didn't add these sacrificial pieces to the design, I would have to let the slicing software generate support material, which can be difficult to remove fully in small cavities like this. If I didn't add any support, this would be printing in mid air. For a small area like this, there's a chance it would work successfully as the filament only needs to span a small gap, but I'd rather be sure given I need the dimensions to be pretty accurate to allow the track beds to join correctly.

130067

When it comes to the turntable pit itself, the post processing is limited to the bottom, where I printed two concentric sacrificial support rings that need to be removed. These were needed as otherwise the top lip of the pit would be printing in mid air. Again, I could've used the slicing software to generate support material, but that's a lot of extra wasted filament compared to those sacrificial rings.

130068

I'll share more photos and details once I've started on the post processing.

The other thing I got started on over the weekend is my mimic panel. I have some 20 x 12mm pine to make the frame out of, and some 3mm plywood to use as the panel. I'm trying to keep this all fairly simple.

I'm also mounting it on some drawer runners so it can slide under the layout out of the way when not in use.

So far I got the frame assembled with the plywood panel on top and the drawer runners mounted. I also cut the panel out where my serial throttle will mount. I've printed a draft layout of the lines which will help me figure out where to mount the toggle switches for the points, push buttons for the decouplers, and the LEDs. Green will be for a closed point, red for thrown, and yellow LEDs will indicate when a decoupler is active (I'll be using servos to raise magnets for these).

The turntable centre will be a GC9A01 round LCD colour display indicating the turntable position, and the circle below that represents the rotary encoder location which I'll use to select the turntable position. I'm designing a mount for those at the moment.

130069 130070

I mocked up the mounting of a switch, button, and LEDs in the scrap plywood from the throttle area and used a black paint pen to try the lines out as well.

130071

I'm happy with the mounting of the various bits, and the LED bezels seem to fit well which was a pleasant surprised.

I think the best bet though is to sand it nice and smooth and spray some white paint first, as the black paint pen tends to bleed into the grain of the plywood which won't look very neat.

One last thing I did was to print a direct drive conversion for my printer, which should (apparently) help reduce the stringing and allow printing higher quality corners. I got motivated last night to start the conversion which is about half way through.

Obviously there's no more printing until I finish this, but by all reports it's well worth the effort in the conversion. Fingers crossed!

130072

I've got a few long days at work this week and a work trip during the week next week, but hopefully I can keep some of this momentum going.

[ChicagoNW]

Thanks for all the details. While 3D printers are a lot cheaper today. Most of us don’t have them, so the many steps you guys gloss over, now make sense.

Way back last century, when I did paste-up at a local newspaper, I had to shepherd new crew. It always amazed me how many parts of the job I did without thinking, but still had to teach them to the newcomers. It definitely helps us technology deprived, understand what goes on, when you guys make stuff.

[jkurry@optonline.net]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for sharing, I am new to this group and am just starting to map out an N Gage layout myself.
I am trying to learn as much as I can and this site as a lot of info for us new folks as well.
Thanks for sharing,
Joe

[peteGSX]

Thanks for all the details. While 3D printers are a lot cheaper today. Most of us don’t have them, so the many steps you guys gloss over, now make sense.

Way back last century, when I did paste-up at a local newspaper, I had to shepherd new crew. It always amazed me how many parts of the job I did without thinking, but still had to teach them to the newcomers. It definitely helps us technology deprived, understand what goes on, when you guys make stuff.

Ah yes, assumed knowledge makes things very tricky! I've had to coach my teams on that topic over the years when it comes to documentation. Write to the audience, not to your own experience. It's a tricky topic that's for sure!


Hi Pete,

Thanks for sharing, I am new to this group and am just starting to map out an N Gage layout myself.
I am trying to learn as much as I can and this site as a lot of info for us new folks as well.
Thanks for sharing,
Joe

Hey Joe, welcome aboard and glad you're getting something out of it!

I get lots of help on forums such as this as well as participating in things like the DCC-EX Discord server, so I try to give back as much help as I can.

[peteGSX]

As predicted I haven't made a huge amount of progress but I did get a couple of things done over the weekend.

Firstly, I ended up designing a drilling template in Fusion 360 for my mimic panel which I got printed out, and it seems to have worked nicely.

130153

I did get the holes drilled but neglected to get another photo. I'll do that once I finish cutting the hole out where the round LCD display will mount for the turntable controller.

It should be able to double as a tracing template for the lines as well once I get the panel painted white.

The other minor bit of progress was getting a case designed and printed for the DCC-EX EX-Turntable controller after deciding to switch from the ULN2003/28BYJ-48 controller and stepper combo to the DRV8825/NEMA17 combo.

I made the PCB up out of stripboard quite some time ago when writing the initial EX-Turntable software, so it was just a matter of needing a new case design.

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I was hoping to have the turntable pit installed in the layout by now but when looking at it again I realised I'd neglected to figure out the location and mounting for the hall effect sensor for the home position, so I will need to get that into the design and re-print it before I can do that.

[peteGSX]

I got some time in the garage last night so I was able to finish cutting the hole for the round LCD and test mount it along with the rotary encoder and a couple of switches, so the panel is now ready for sanding and paint.

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Fingers crossed I get to sand and paint on the weekend as I'm really keen to start getting this together!

I do still need to sort out the electronic side of things yet but getting the panel assembled will give me the motivation I need to do that.

[Sumner]

Can't wait to see what you are going to do with the round display in conjunction with the turntable I presume. I never even thought about one but after just doing some searching I'll have to come up with a reason to get one at some point as I saw some pretty good examples of them being used.

Sumner

[peteGSX]

Can't wait to see what you are going to do with the round display in conjunction with the turntable I presume. I never even thought about one but after just doing some searching I'll have to come up with a reason to get one at some point as I saw some pretty good examples of them being used.

Sumner

Ah yes, it is indeed for the turntable control. It's not grand, but it's cool, although someone with better graphical software skills could make it a lot prettier I expect.

I do have a dodgy little video of it in action, although not actually triggering turntable moves.


https://youtu.be/ZWiGnvN81XI

I've got the details somewhat documented here (https://petegsx-projects.github.io/rotary-encoder/overview.html), but essentially it integrates with an EX-CommandStation via a device driver and EXRAIL commands to trigger turntable rotations.

The software needs more work also, but again, once the panel is built it will help motivate me to finish it!

[Sumner]

although someone with better graphical software skills could make it a lot prettier I expect.

Very nice but I expect to see a turntable bridge and a loco drive on and off of it when finished :D;),

Sumner

[peteGSX]

Very nice but I expect to see a turntable bridge and a loco drive on and off of it when finished :D;),

Sumner

Hahahaha I suspect you may need a serious amount of patience waiting for that level :lol:

[ChicagoNW]

It’s a hecka lot better than the little light bulbs on a classic turntable controller.

[peteGSX]

Yes for sure! I'm really keen to get this mimic panel happening but time as always is the issue. If only we could get paid to work on our hobbies full time!

[Sumner]

If only we could get paid to work on our hobbies full time!

Careful for what you wish for. Early 80's and computers where my main hobby. That developed into teaching computer classes at a community college and then a computer store with 8 employees at the end before I sold it. After that I only turned a computer on to do my taxes for a number of years. Back in it but it will stay a hobby for sure ;).

Sumner

[peteGSX]

Yeah I hear that! I had a similar thing with being a PC technician in the early 90s with that also being a hobby and ended up driving taxis for 18 months in the late 90s just to take a break :lol:

[peteGSX]

Thought I'd best post a brief update although I've not made a lot of progress.

I did get the mimic panel painted white which turned out good enough for my needs:

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I then taped my drilling template back down and used an Extreme Sharpie along with my black paint pen to mark and paint most of the lines.

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Now I need to take the templates off and finish painting all the lines where the template covered things, which gets me to the point of installing the switches and LEDs.

I'll have to pause there for a bit while I figure out the electronic side of things.

I've got some other things going on which are slowing this all down as usual (motorcycle maintenance and helping the DCC-EX team), but hopefully I'm not too far away from having a functional mimic panel which will be awesome.

[peteGSX]

Very limited time on the weekend but I took the opportunity to at least get the mimic panel mounted under the benchwork on some drawer runners so I can slide it out of the way when not in use.

Next I need to finish painting the lines so I can start on the switches/LEDs and then electronics.

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[ChicagoNW]

Just curious, why not a full track diagram?

[peteGSX]

Just curious, why not a full track diagram?

With my initial layout, there wasn't room on what amounts to an A4 sheet of paper for the entire layout.

With the revised, smaller layout, now that you mention it, it probably would fit... but I didn't think of that :lol:

I have made a little more progress too and started installing some of the toggle switches and push buttons along with a couple of LEDs, but no more photos yet.

I've been focused on a shiny new installer for the DCC-EX software as well as trying to finish up the software for my round LCD and rotary encoder for the mimic panel so I can mount them in there also.

I also now have some extra resistors on hand to do some experimenting to get the right level of LED brightness.

I have a four-day long weekend coming up so I'm hoping to get some time to make some real progress.

[sid]

I've been focused on a shiny new installer for the DCC-EX software

Oh im looking for to this.
this reminds me i need to check and up date my other dcc-ex systems. they have been idle for a while now.


finish up the software for my round LCD and rotary encoder for the mimic panel

humm round lcd . got some pics of this ?
im always interested in new stuff......

Never mind i went back a couple pages and read what you had posted . im very interested in that turn table setup. its going to be NICE.......

[peteGSX]

Oh im looking for to this.
this reminds me i need to check and up date my other dcc-ex systems. they have been idle for a while now.



humm round lcd . got some pics of this ?
im always interested in new stuff......

Never mind i went back a couple pages and read what you had posted . im very interested in that turn table setup. its going to be NICE.......

Cool Sid! The new EX-Installer (https://dcc-ex.com/ex-installer/index.html) has been out there for use for a bit over a week now and so far feedback has been positive. I'm working on a new version at the moment too incidentally.. seems to just keep sucking up my time at the moment :-/ I think it's well worth it though!

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As far as layout progress goes though, that's a completely different story! I installed all the toggle switches and push buttons on the mimic panel but didn't get a photo yet. I also acquired all the required resistors for the LEDs, so I have all the electronics ready to go and need to start soldering up the strip board so I can figure how/where to mount it.

I also still haven't found the time to figure out why my loco stopped running. Not enough time and too many projects!

[peteGSX]

Well, progress has been made! On my mimic panel anyway...

Firstly though, I must say the coolest thing in my day today was watching the latest DIY and Digital Railroad video by Jimmy where he covered the latest developments in DCC-EX, which included a mention of the new EX-Installer.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WXPA0uVFXw&t

As for my mimic panel, I got the stripboard mostly soldered up to mount the microcontroller I'm using with EX-IOExpander for the switches, buttons, and LEDs for the mimic panel along with the software to run the round LCD and rotary encoder to control the turntable.

I powered it up, and realised I need to rotate the display 180 degrees, which is thankfully as simple as a software setting.

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Next up is the tedious bit of connecting all the buttons, switches, and LEDs. Looking forward to getting it done though!

[sid]

ohhhh that looks like its gunna be very cool device there . the rotary knob turns the turntable as you can view it turning. thats awesome.. the things y'all come up with ....:lol::D
thats an awesome video too by that way.

[peteGSX]

Haha yep Sid, I'm keen to get it all functional and happening! It'll give me the tactile feel I'm looking for while still being able to keep it in the digital control world and allow for automation when I get that far.

Definitely an awesome video! I love following along with Jimmy and to see an entire video sharing the DCC-EX progress is just fantastic.

[peteGSX]

Progress on my mimic panel is slow, but I have made some at least.

I connected the electronics up to my DCC-EX command station to test and make sure they connect, which they do, so excellent news there! Next is the tedious job of wiring up the SPDT centre-off toggle switches, push buttons, and LEDs.

I got wires solded to most of the centre-off toggle switches today which is a good start, but a long way to go yet.

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[peteGSX]

I finally have my mimic panel together and functional!

Here's the latest photo I took of the rear, and I haven't tidied any of the spaghetti up yet now that it's complete.

131055

I took a quick video of it in action. I need to make a longer I2C cable before mounting it back in the drawer runners so it's just propped up on my little work stool here for the video.

If you watch closely, you'll see closing/throwing points via the toggle switches updates Engine Driver as well as the LEDs, and vice versa, so working exactly as I intended (yay).

Also, selecting the turntable routes in Engine Driver also updates the round LCD with the correct position.

The push buttons are for the decouplers, which will be servos with magnets attached to raise them up under the track for 10 seconds, which the yellow LEDs indicate. Again, using a decoupler route in Engine Driver will set the LEDs the same as using the push buttons on the panel.


https://youtu.be/Fp6c-CbXCxQ

This is all accomplished with a DCC-EX EX-CommandStation using EXRAIL automation, with EX-IOExpander to control the switches and LEDs, and my rotary encoder software for the rotary encoder and round LCD.

Turns out my automation isn't ideal at the moment and using the toggle switches introduces bouncing and multiple point switches which I'll fix with a new sequence (this is expected really).

I need to do something with my mimic panel throttle yet. My initial version of the software is very basic with hard coded loco addresses and really not much functionality at all. Now that I know what I want to do with it, I need to start from scratch and will be using an STM32F103C8 Bluepill rather than the Arduino Nano, which means reassembling the stripboard to suit as well as re-writing the software.

Always interesting problems to solve!

I've realised I really need to do something about actually running trains too. I still haven't figured out why my one and only working loco stopped, and haven't run a train since way back in April! It's now nearly October...