Page 17 of 17 FirstFirst ... 71314151617
Results 321 to 340 of 340

Thread: Hand Laid Track - Too hard? No patience? Don't know where to start? Just ask us!

  1. #321
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Columbus,OH, USA
    Posts
    3,268
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 1,587 Times in 918 Posts
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lphughes View Post
    Has anybody tried out the Proto:87 turnout parts? The frogs look very nice, as do the machined points. They also suggest gluing the ties to some kind of paper substrate to keep everything under control...

    http://www.proto87.com/N_scale_turnouts_and_track.html
    I've used the throw bar parts and the railjoiners. I have some of the tie plates, but haven't installed any.

    Those parts work well.

    Paul

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pbender For This Useful Post:


  3. #322
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Ashburn, VA, USA
    Posts
    1,087
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 1,565 Times in 486 Posts
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I made some FastTrack's #12's a long time ago, before I moved. There were plans....

    Anyway, they are finally on a module and in use! I have to say, I am very impressed in the end. However now that real trains are running over them, I did learn some things:

    1) Lots of equipment's wheels are under-gauge. Particularly steamers. If you install the guard rails to the spec of the NMRA gauge you will have trouble. I had to move both outer guard rails to be about the "point" spacing on the NMRA gauge to get my steamers to stop trying to ride up and over them. I also had one inner guard rail extremely tight on the NMRA gauge for a guard rail that I had to relax a fraction of an inch. Once adjusted, they are running like butter though, I love them.

    2) Don't forget you need stiffer throw-bar wire for a tortoise. The stock wire does nothing to move them.

    3) Because you need the stiffer wire, don't throw them with a tortoise until they are at least partially ballasted or you'll break the glue loose.

    More are absolutely in my future.
    --
    Leo Bicknell

  4. #323
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Columbus,OH, USA
    Posts
    3,268
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 1,587 Times in 918 Posts
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bicknell View Post
    1) Lots of equipment's wheels are under-gauge. Particularly steamers. If you install the guard rails to the spec of the NMRA gauge you will have trouble. I had to move both outer guard rails to be about the "point" spacing on the NMRA gauge to get my steamers to stop trying to ride up and over them. I also had one inner guard rail extremely tight on the NMRA gauge for a guard rail that I had to relax a fraction of an inch. Once adjusted, they are running like butter though, I love them.
    Remember that track and wheels firm a system that keeps equipment on the rails.

    If everything derails, then the problem is with the track, and that should be adjusted.

    If a few pieces of equipment derail, then the equipment is the problem, and the wheels should be adjusted.

    Personally, Every piece of equipment I have is gauged to the NMRA standards gauge before it hits the rails. If it has a problem, I adjust it then.

    The problem with tweaking guardrails to accommodate under gauge equipment is that you may find yourself in a situation where some pieces of equipment will derail on those turnouts in strange ways. In particular, cars with fine scale wheel treads can actually have the tread wander off the top of the rail and into the flangeways. ( this has been a problem with Peco turnouts for a long time.... even before fox valley started making fine tread wheels... )

    Paul

  5. #324
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Ashburn, VA, USA
    Posts
    1,087
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 1,565 Times in 486 Posts
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pbender View Post
    Personally, Every piece of equipment I have is gauged to the NMRA standards gauge before it hits the rails. If it has a problem, I adjust it then.
    Well, here's my problem, I'm building an N-Trak module. Even if I wanted to, I don't get to gauge all the equipment that will run over it. The up side is I am also somewhat unlikely to run into fine-tread wheels, in my experience the NTrak crew is unlikely to go to the effort.

    Based on my measurements my turnouts are still closer to spec than Atlas or Peco which are built to an even more tolerant spec. As such I hope they won't be an issue. However part of my reason for building these modules is to have dozens of people run hundreds of trains from all different (manufacturing) eras and manufacturers and see how they work in the real world. I think they are going to work better than commercial units, which is all they have to do.

    FWIW, my understanding with the steamers is that to navigate 9 3/4 or 12" turns they under-gauge the wheels (so the flanges come in a bit) and then make the wheels a bit too wide. The under-gauge let's the ridged wheelbase make the turn, and the wide wheels keep it on. It's these wide wheels that then bridge Peco insulfrog switches and short them out. It's a cruddy set of tradeoffs. It would better if everything was to-spec, but it would probably require steamers to be limited to 18" corners or have center wheels without flanges....
    --
    Leo Bicknell

  6. #325
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Columbus,OH, USA
    Posts
    3,268
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 1,587 Times in 918 Posts
    Mentioned
    46 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bicknell View Post
    Well, here's my problem, I'm building an N-Trak module. Even if I wanted to, I don't get to gauge all the equipment that will run over it. The up side is I am also somewhat unlikely to run into fine-tread wheels, in my experience the NTrak crew is unlikely to go to the effort.
    I know the n-trackers of whole you speak. These are the ones I use derailments as a learning opportunity with... if they will listen.

    Of course, n-trak still officially forbids hand laid track...

    Paul

  7. #326
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Ashburn, VA, USA
    Posts
    1,087
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 1,565 Times in 486 Posts
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pbender View Post
    Of course, n-trak still officially forbids hand laid track...
    Yeah, I've always found that a bit questionable, it should be an operational standard not a item based standard in my opinion.

    Part of my goal is to see if it feasible to change that official standard. Before I write up an RP and put it to the national membership, I need real world data. That's why I'm building modules with the FastTracks based switches, to collect real world data. I think if I can show a year or two of both durability and less derailments it will go a long way to acceptance.

    I'm also using #12's. They just look better, and of course operate better. Atlas #4's are just too short for 6 axel diesels, large steam, or 89' cars. They all just glide over these switches, much less coupler swing, etc. My torture test is long trains, backwards, through the diverging route. And they are doing fabulous.

    So maybe in the end rather than an Recommend Practice, we can make it an Optional Practice for the advanced modeler. That would make me very happy. It will be a few years though...
    --
    Leo Bicknell

  8. #327
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    911
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    376
    Thanked 615 Times in 258 Posts
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I have all but purchased a good amount of starter supplies for hand laid switches.

    After looking at a ton of video etc I am assuming some sort of switch machine is a must to hold the points in place?
    Be positive, Be polite, have fun with the hobby!

  9. #328
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    1,370
    Thanks
    3,838
    Thanked 1,302 Times in 753 Posts
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Not necessarily - there are ways to make centre-over-spring turnouts - like Peco turnouts that you can move the points manually:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNYnurWOO_E
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXGEjuDhwhY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXGEjuDhwhY

  10. #329
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    31
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 60 Times in 17 Posts
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Micro switches are available:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2A-f81bttc

    The switches are available on E-bay for about two cents apiece:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/50-Pcs-2-Pos...72.m2749.l2649

    Takes about two weeks for them to arrive.

    Harold

  11. #330
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    911
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    376
    Thanked 615 Times in 258 Posts
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    For the hand laid turnout folks.

    Are you going with a hinged or fixed point rail?

    Benefits etc?
    Be positive, Be polite, have fun with the hobby!

  12. #331
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Ashburn, VA, USA
    Posts
    1,087
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 1,565 Times in 486 Posts
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bessemer Bob View Post
    Are you going with a hinged or fixed point rail?
    I've seen no reason to hinge with #8 and larger turnouts.

    I've not tried to build smaller, but I can see how with smaller numbers it may become necessary.
    --
    Leo Bicknell

  13. #332
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Ashburn, VA, USA
    Posts
    1,087
    Thanks
    223
    Thanked 1,565 Times in 486 Posts
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bessemer Bob View Post
    After looking at a ton of video etc I am assuming some sort of switch machine is a must to hold the points in place?
    For a very broad definition of "switch machine"!!!

    Sure a tortoise works, or a BluePoint, or a BullFrog. But as others have posted a simple DPDT switch can do the job, or a caboose throw. The key is that yes, something, somewhere has to hold it in place.

    On N-Trak lots of people use the typical size DPDT, drill a hole in the handle, and use some spring wire. This is not the best version I've seen, but is a picture I could find online quickly:

    --
    Leo Bicknell

  14. The Following User Says Thank You to bicknell For This Useful Post:


  15. #333
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    911
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    376
    Thanked 615 Times in 258 Posts
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thanks for the input.

    Since the hand laid switches are going on the moduler that will eventually be part of the large permanent layout Im going all in. I am going to use tortoise machines for all these switches including wiring in the frogs.

    Main line switches will be #10s and all siding switches will be #8. Only issue will be the mill switches, going with #4 on those.
    Be positive, Be polite, have fun with the hobby!

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to Bessemer Bob For This Useful Post:


  17. #334
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Western Colorado
    Posts
    447
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    1,201
    Thanked 1,823 Times in 317 Posts
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I know this is months late but figured It might help others anyway. On the hinged point thing. I have mostly #5 turnouts on my layout and have had issues with the solid points being hard to move. It's a combination of the stiffness of the points and the distance to the switch machines. I'm using Tortoise machines and they are mounted about 3 inches below the turnout due to the foam for the terrain.

    Here is one of the turnouts it was really easy to move when I first built it but add some ties paint and ballast and it's a little stiff.



    This solution finally worked for me. The little wire that comes with the tortoise is roughly 0.020 inches I read a recommendation to use 0.031 inch so I tried that and it was still way to weak. I saw this on YouTube, I bought 0.055 inch music wire and attached a piece of 0.031" by taking the strands from a piece of stranded wire and wrapping them around the music wire and soldering. This gives a stiffer wire but the end is still small enough to go through a n scale turnout throw bar. My throw bars are actually HOn3 because fastrax had them in the bargain bin when I was making an order. The music wire doesn't seem to be solderable, the wrapped wire makes a joint that is plenty strong.



    I was able to drill the stock hole in the Tortoise to 0.060" and still maintain the hole in it's stock location. If I do it again I may even try going with 0.0625" wire. There is still plenty of flex in the wire to keep it from binding but it doesn't just bend now. Also could just drill the hole in a different location in the tortoise actuator and it would work fine.
    Jodie - CEO East Creek-V2 OLD: East Creek Branch.

    Those who say it can't be done should stay out of the way of those who are doing it.

    My 2'x4' Layout - Here 2013 Shelf-ish Challenge 2 Square feet - Here

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MystRacing For This Useful Post:


  19. #335
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    911
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    376
    Thanked 615 Times in 258 Posts
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thank you for the info.

    Im guessing #4 tortoise activated will be ok. I am using 1/2 plywood with no foam.
    Be positive, Be polite, have fun with the hobby!

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to Bessemer Bob For This Useful Post:


  21. #336
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Midland Mi
    Posts
    135
    Blog Entries
    8
    Thanks
    121
    Thanked 279 Times in 56 Posts
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    :bballcap: Hi all

    who do I get advice from I want to start hand laying track ?.....help

    Ken

  22. #337
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    911
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    376
    Thanked 615 Times in 258 Posts
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Ken.

    A great start is Youtube..

    Fast tracks has a few videos, a few other modelers have great videos on building switches. Worth watching a few and seeing if its something you would like to do. Plus they normally have a good tip or two
    Be positive, Be polite, have fun with the hobby!

  23. #338
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Posts
    74
    Thanks
    65
    Thanked 67 Times in 44 Posts
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Highly recommend the Fast Tracks videos - though be aware that many are of HO size builds. The 'process' is the same just on a fiNer scale.

    Be patient, you will get better the longer you persist. I would also recommend the fine solder available from Fast Tracks, that really helps to control the amount you use which is actually a small amount on each joint. Otherwise you end up spending time filling off excess later to improve the appearance.

  24. #339
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    13
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 65 Times in 11 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Greetings fellow n scalers!
    It has been a long time since I posted anything. There have been at least 2 restarts of my layout but I think I am satisfied with the direction of the current build, so far.

    In the interim I have been honing my meager skills and thought I would share some of my latest turnout laying attempts.

    LRM_EXPORT_20180512_092356.jpg
    LRM_EXPORT_20180512_093706.jpg

    As you can see, I am not using any pcb ties. Although I have fair soldering skills I don't like the result. So everything is spiked. This matches Atlas flex, Kato and Tomix track quite well, as I am using all three in various configurations.

    Any feedback would be appreciated.

  25. The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to Patrick McGrath For This Useful Post:


  26. #340
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Buhl, Idaho
    Posts
    361
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    8,098
    Thanked 383 Times in 175 Posts
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I just spent all day rereading this thread again
    and it was just as much fun as the first time. Great work guys!

    ___________Just do it in Vinyl!__________


  27. The Following User Says Thank You to Comfortably numb For This Useful Post:


Similar Threads

  1. Anyone hand laying track?
    By MooseID in forum Trackage
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 10th Mar 2015, 06:04 PM
  2. Is your track laid correctly?
    By ChicagoNW in forum Trackage
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 25th Jul 2010, 12:06 PM
  3. making you own track/hand layed track
    By 10-7 in forum Trackage
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 17th Feb 2010, 02:15 PM
  4. Hand Laid Turnouts
    By YardMaster845 in forum Trackage
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 1st Dec 2009, 11:35 AM
  5. Hand Laid Rail
    By sams in forum Trackage
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 26th Feb 2005, 01:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •