Hand Laid Track - Too hard? No patience? Don't know where to start? Just ask us!

[Comfortably numb]

https://www.nscale.net/forums/showth...Hand-Laid-Star

[DG&H MRRinN]

I'm experimenting now with a 3D printed jig I designed to help with gluing the individual ties on.

Can you please let us know the link to it when you get that up working well....

[Sumner]

Can you please let us know the link to it when you get that up working well....

Tried it today with mixed results. I got about 2/3's of the ties glued on using it but then had to put the rest on separately. So I'm about to work on a revised version now that I can see some things that can be made better...










Sumner

[3rdboxcar]

My version of a pcb tie cutting jig for Fast tracks #6

[baronjutter]

Hello hand layers! I have a friend working on a layout for a client and they really need a few custom turnouts. It's an HOn3 layout. I remembered we had a few folks on the forums that would take commissions like this. Would anyone be interested?

[DG&H MRRinN]

Hey gang!

So, I have a template that I need to make for my layout, and Im looking for some advice on how to tackle this guy.
Ideally, I would like to make it as one piece. But, if you suggest otherwise, I'll differ to your wisdom.
So, here is my bad boy!
20210221_211216.small.jpg

*Note, I have only completed one handlaid point so far as of the writing of this post. I did it off a paper template. *and intend to always do it this way.
I am currently working on the other 7 points that I need to make before I tackle this guy, so, I have time to chat about how to go about him here.

Thanks everyone for you help in advance.

[Frank17913]

I've done that a number of times if the curved turnouts are one of the ones in the Fast Tracks library, I'd print out those. Glue your template above to a piece of wood or other surface you use to work on (that won't melt ) then glue the turnouts to the template. Use those templates to glue down the PC ties in the appropriate places ( I use white glue, and then scrape the ties off with a razor blade when I'm done). if Fast Tracks has a template for the crossing, use that as well. Put down all the PC ties at the beginning, including the non-turnout PC ties. You are going to have some complex pieces to make to avoid the joints and make one piece.

You'll have a piece for the stock rail of both turnouts with a notch for the points on both turnouts. That's going to be one piece so you have to make sure those notches are in the right place and line up on both turnouts at once. This will be easier if you are using the Fast Tracks stockade tool, I'd get one if you don't have it.

You will also have two pieces that will combine the other stock rail for each turnout, with one crossing frog or corner also attached. it can be done, just take your time and measure everything two or three times. one of those corners of the crossing will also have a point notch in it, and it will all have to line up. You'll also have one section that will include two frogs and a turnout corner, both ends will have a point filed on them on all three pieces of that triangle, just make them one at at time, follow your plan closely, and use your track gauge often. just solder in a few places until you are sure it's correct, then go and solder the remaining ties when everything checks out.

I always like the idea of avoiding joints if I can. The only down side is if you decide to change things later, I've done that too and in that case the extra time spent won't be worth it, since if you salvage some of the turnouts, they won't have the advantage of being one piece anymore. But if you are sure of your plan, then limiting the amount of joints is a good idea, just be sure to cut all the correct isolation gaps.

Also, check out @Comfortablynumb's "Hand Laid Star" thread and video's, that will be helpful if you are just starting out.

Good luck!

[Comfortably numb]

Frank, Start with a contusions Center line on your sketch. If you do that and have a big enough space to lay flat and spin with out hitting anything. It will just fall to gather.
If you make it in three paces, stager your rail joints so that every thing stays in gage. Go slow and masher twice cut once. Remember just have Fun !

[DG&H MRRinN]

if the curved turnouts are one of the ones in the Fast Tracks library

It is a custom turnout I created using the Templot Program.

Glue your template above to a piece of wood or other surface you use to work on (that won't melt )

Learnt that.... Ooops!

Use those templates to glue down the PC ties in the appropriate places ( I use white glue

That is how I do it also. Seemed logical.

Put down all the PC ties at the beginning, including the non-turnout PC ties

Makes sense to me... thanks for this.

You'll have a piece for the stock rail of both turnouts with a notch for the points on both turnouts. That's going to be one piece so you have to make sure those notches are in the right place and line up on both turnouts at once. This will be easier if you are using the Fast Tracks stockade tool, I'd get one if you don't have it.

I have a Fast Tracks Stockaide tool, and a #8 Crossover Point Form Tool. (also have a #5 PointForm tool) I get what you mean about making sure the notches are in the right place... But, not entirely sure what you are getting at here.... "going to be one piece, and line up on both at once." Are you saying that the stock rail that going from point to point, and not the side that leads to the diamond crossing will be one piece..... Just like that 2 rails that go into the diamond should be made of one length.... As I am typing this... it is making more sense. But, Im still going to ask for confirmation, just in case I am out in left field.

Thus, from this assumption, I am guessing that I will need to do the same with the 'inside leg' of the frog... But, for the outside leg of the frog, going into the diamond.... would you do that as two separate rails, or from one, and bend it at the crossing ??

both ends will have a point filed on them on all three pieces of that triangle, just make them one at at time

" Why did I choose to make such a complicated thing in my layout! Oh yeah, cause it just looks & works better, and it is a wonderful challenge for myself to learn some new things." LOL

just take your time and measure everything two or three times

LOL, Yeah... That is one thing I have always done.... in everything I have ever built... Measure 2 times, write it down, walk away, do one other thing, then come back and measure it again for a third time. If all numbers match, proceed. {if any don't... walk away, do something come back, repeat until I get the same number 3 times.} (This drives my TOWMBO crazy, [And other people that I work with] But... it gives me P.o.M. and, rarely do I need to re-cut something. Darn CDO. (OCD to the next level)

follow your plan closely, and use your track gauge often

Check and CHECK! I have 6 of those track gauges, and 2 MNRA gauges just for this reason... I don't want ANY of my track to be an issue.

Also, check out @Comfortablynumb's "Hand Laid Star" thread and video's, that will be helpful if you are just starting out.

Yeah, I have watched all of @Comfortably numb's videos... some a couple times. Plus all of FastTracks Video's several times. Those are really good too.
And, read a lot of @Sumner's stuff... Lots of good stuff from them all. Plus everything that everyone has posted in this thread... HUGE help! This thread is why I feel comfortable enough to even attempt doing my own points. I remember watching (BigG I think it was) building a point about 5 years ago when I first started looking into how to make the 'star'... and thinking... DAMN, no way can I do this. That is just too hard! Now, with advice & help from all the great people here, {And a -tonne of practise} I know that one day in the future, I will make that magical diorama with the Star!
Just for now, these being my first few to make, this one of mine... I have an idea how to proceed, but, was having trouble wrapping my mind around it completely.
Why I love all you 'guys'... you are all so helpful!

I always like the idea of avoiding joints if I can. The only down side is if you decide to change things later, I've done that too and in that case the extra time spent won't be worth it, since if you salvage some of the turnouts, they won't have the advantage of being one piece anymore. But if you are sure of your plan, then limiting the amount of joints is a good idea, just be sure to cut all the correct isolation gaps. ..... Good luck!

Totally agree... Without those gaps, the track work just look so much nicer.
For changing one's mind... and revamping the whole darn thing.... been there, done that. many times! But, I look at it as.... What did I learn? How can I improve it? and if parts need to be scrapped... I look at how they can be used in other ways... scrap yards... or, scenic as sitting next to a track, waiting to replace some tracks... Nothing goes to waste... come to think of it. I don't think I have a garbage pail in my hobby room! LOL

Now, this "isolation gaps" thing you speak of.... what are they? KIDDING! lol. Just got my jewellers saw in the mail the other day... DAMN that is a tiny saw blade. And, it says you can order even smaller! I swear, that thing is thinner then my floss. LOL

Thank you for everything!

[Frank17913]

I have a Fast Tracks Stockaide tool, and a #8 Crossover Point Form Tool. (also have a #5 PointForm tool) I get what you mean about making sure the notches are in the right place... But, not entirely sure what you are getting at here.... "going to be one piece, and line up on both at once." Are you saying that the stock rail that going from point to point, and not the side that leads to the diamond crossing will be one piece..... Just like that 2 rails that go into the diamond should be made of one length.... As I am typing this... it is making more sense. But, Im still going to ask for confirmation, just in case I am out in left field.

Thus, from this assumption, I am guessing that I will need to do the same with the 'inside leg' of the frog... But, for the outside leg of the frog, going into the diamond.... would you do that as two separate rails, or from one, and bend it at the crossing ??

"Thank you for everything!

It looks like I didn’t proof-read as good as I thought! I was referring to the stock rail piece that will span both turnouts at the very top of the Templot printout. I was just telling you to make sure the two notches for the point rails that you file out with the stockade toll, line up with where they should be on both those two turnouts on the printout. If it’s off you’ll have a problem later. I’ve done it before and it’s never very easy to fix after the fact, I’ve tried! You always wind up braking something, or at least I do, or waste an entire evening on it.

As far as the diamond crossing. I was referring to the curved part of the stock rail on each turnout that is on the route going through the crossing. One end of that will have a point filed on it for that corner of the crossing, and also on that piece of rail will be the notch for the other side of the points. You only have one chance to get that right, so just make sure those line up as well. I’d file the point of the crossing first, at least I tend to have more problems with those splitting at the sharp end and having to do them over( I’m usually dealing with the point of a second turnouts frog, but the principal is the same). If you have the stockade tool notch already filed and you have to redo the point because it didn’t come out quite right, now your piece will be too short, that stockade notch will be out of place and you’ll have to start over.

Hopefully I didn’t confuse you more!

None of it is really hard if you take it a piece at a time. If you have the patience it will all fall together and you’ll be amazed at what you did when it’s done!

[DG&H MRRinN]

Hopefully I didn’t confuse you more!

None of it is really hard if you take it a piece at a time. If you have the patience it will all fall together and you’ll be amazed at what you did when it’s done!

Clear as Elmer's School Glue.... pretty opaque when I first read... but, clears up to a nice transparent clarity over time, {and a couple reads}.

Yeah, kinda like eating an elephant. And, this is all just prep work {same for the star, once I feel comfortable enough to attempt it} for my ultimate module. (Won't say here, because friends in the "group" I am part of are also on here, and I want it to be a surprize to them. So, down the road, I might be picking your brains in a private message.)

As far as the diamond crossing. I was referring to.... ....and you’ll have to start over.

OK, read this like 15 times.... and re-read your last post another 10 times. I think I totally understand what you are saying. And, I now get the way you are saying to do things, the order in which to cut, and then to file in, on each piece of rail. And, from this, I think it would be better to do the 'triangle leg' in 3 pieces. Might be a tad more soldering, but, sounds like it will make getting the measurements a lot less stressful.


Now for the overall build of this.... I am thinking that I should start at the top centre, and work my way out.... going down, and then out....

From the attached picture, what I am thinking for the order of building it, and attaching after built, before moving to the next step, would be:

1, build & attach that stock rail.
2. build & attach that 'triangle leg' complex.
3. building that Frog
4. attach those stock rails.
5. building that Frog
6. attach those stock rails.
7. build & attach those switch points.
8. build & attach those switch points.
9. build & attach these stock rails.
10. install these rails *with guards attached
11. install all remaining guard rails (thinking about doing the guard rail for the diamond out of polystyrene, or 3D printing it (at the library)
12. ??? am I forgetting something? I feel like I am.

20210221_211216.small.Edit.OrderV1.1.jpg

Please feel free to chime in if you think I should do something in a different order. or if I should do something before finishing something.

Again, Thank you all for your great help. I can't express enough how much I truly appreciate it!

[Frank17913]

It looks like you have the idea I was trying to convey, best I can do in writing I guess without including a lot of pictures ( that I don’t have right now). I’d do the triangle in three pieces as well. Feel free to ask if you get stuck!

[DG&H MRRinN]

Originally Posted by Frank17913
just take your time and measure everything two or three times

Originally Posted by DG&H MRRinN
LOL, Yeah... That is one thing I have always done.... in everything I have ever built... Measure 2 times, write it down, walk away, do one other thing, then come back and measure it again for a third time. If all numbers match, proceed. {if any don't... walk away, do something come back, repeat until I get the same number 3 times.} (This drives my TOWMBO crazy, [And other people that I work with] But... it gives me P.o.M. and, rarely do I need to re-cut something

So, eating some crow here.... Helps when you are measuring, to make sure that the point that you are measuring FROM is the right spot... LOL
Ooops. But, I think it turned out decent.

20210301_030656.small.jpg
20210301_030704.small.jpg

My error didn't end up affecting the points, and gives me a happy little bonus, of having my rail joiners staggered. A good thing, in my opinion since this is on a curve.
The PCB tie that is unused atm, I'll use that on the next point... (Just need to remember to add that measurement when I build it)

Thanks for looking in.

[Frank17913]

You can recover from those kinds of errors pretty easily, as you noticed. Turnout itself looks top notch!

[DG&H MRRinN]

So, in all of this thread, I can not recall ever hearing about how anyone actually curves their rails....

I mean, the actual process. *do you use your fingers or tools or????

Actually, the only time I can recall anyone ever covering this, is in one of the Fast Tracks YouTube tutorials. where they suggest that fancy tool. But, then he just using his hand, and gives one quick glide, and it's a perfect bend.

[Frank17913]

I’d get that fancy tool if you can! I use my fingers, but that’s easy with code 40, code 55 is a lot tougher to bend. You can do it, it’s just harder on your fingers, especially if you are doing a lot of it, and it will take longer. It will take a while to get as good at it as him!

[Sumner]

I'm code 55 and just use my fingers. It is a pretty cool tool but I can't justify it for making as few curved turnout vs. straight ones as I do. If I was doing a lot of hand-laid curved track or a lot of curved turnouts or heavier rail I might invest in it, but I'm not.

Sumner