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Thread: That moment of “I have no clue what I want”

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    Default That moment of “I have no clue what I want”

    I am sure this is a point that every modeler comes across at some point in time, and most like it’s not a onetime thing. Often in life we are forced for a number of different reasons (the big one being money) to have to make choices as to which “path” we are going to head down. In the world of model railroading I feel the fork in the path is often put in front of us. Money, Space, Time are all reason we may have to make a hard stance and go in a certain direction. I know for me money and space are the two big factors, I would love to have that giant railroad that I can run point to point main line freights with many industrial scenes along the way for the locals to work. Well the fact of life is I am in N scale due to space issues, and I only have so much cash that I should be spending in the hobby. I use the word should because every once in a while I get that “oh man I have to buy it while I can” feeling and pick something up that I really shouldn’t be spending money on.
    Now with all that said comes that time when you feel like, wow I have invested heavily in a road name, era, type of railroading (coal, industrial, passenger) and realize that time and space limits will never allow me to be satisfied with what I picked, and then you say. Did I pick the right thing….

    I know we have all been there, let me hear about these struggles you have had…

    Bob
    Be positive, Be polite, have fun with the hobby!

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    I'm sittin in that same spot right now...When I got home from Active Duty I apparently tried to make up for lost time and effectively increased my collection by roughly 400% if not more. At the same time I have a picture in mind that I'm trying to flesh out but I can't seem to let go of the stuff I picked up as part of bulk deals that I'll never need, even though it would free up the biggest issue of money for the "proper equipment". Since I have no real money to get the supplies I "need" the whole project is at a standstill other than some "carpet railroading" when I get the itch to run trains (thank you Kato for Unitrack), yet I continue to nickle-and-dime my way through eBay buying up more "gotta have it" items...
    Tim

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    B&LE SD18 project
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    Without a doubt, I feel your pain.
    Three kids, one in college, making an income and mostly lack of time and money are all de-motivators...
    I don't want to wish my life away but I am envious of those with more time to commit to model railroading- besides in an armchair...

    I have come to terms with it for the most part. (Admittedly I have been on a spending spree the last year but that has to stop with a kid in college.) I am resigned to the fact that the big pike is down the road. I collect with that themed idea in mind. In the meantime, I have smaller projects to work on to maintain and improve skills. A kitbash here, a diorama there, and a micro-layout to put something that moves together. Mostly, I need to expand my knowledge base about railroading. I have been modelling most of my life but prototype railroading itself is relatively new.

    I sometimes lack the motivation to get up and do it but am inspired by the work I see here. Also, a bit scarrier, an aquaintance (we were not that close but shared a love of model railroading) passed away last year. On our first visit together he showed me his dream layout planning book and he described a vast collection HO trains purchased over decades. The notebook was similar to mine. Full of ideas, sketches and dreams. Sadly, over the next ten years, he slowly slipped into early dimensia and finally passed away, never finding the time or space to see his dream come to fruition.
    I saw myself in him and vowed to not let that happen. I make an effort to reach a bit every day, even if it is cleaning up or organizing the workbench.

    I am not trying to depress anybody. We all have various roadblocks to overcome, but I see some pretty talented modellers here that are getting it done under whatever conditions they face, and it leaves me with few excuses not to move things forward - albeit slowly and meticulously.

    Now deciding to focus on any one project... thats for another thread... dozens of half started to almost done projects lie in wait... The nature of my short attention span/artistic side...

    Good luck.
    -Steve
    Steve - Jugtown Modeler..............Don't know enough about railroading yet, but scale modeling is my life..............Web-Folio

    The introduction of so powerful an agent as steam to a carriage on wheels will make a great change in the situation of man. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1802


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    Wow what a great topic, I too find myself limited by space not funds in model rr'ing. It bites to be limited by space and can't do much about it, however I look at people like Dave Vollmer and say wow look at what he did with the same space I have. Im still not happy with my layout as it is maybe I'll create a giant engine facility now that would be awesome.

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    I have no clue to what you are talking about, but then I am single, have a 4 bedroom house where I only need one to sleep , and as for finances.... well I already said I'm single . There is however one thing holding me down, time, why isn't it a 2 day work 5 day off cyclus

    I have a lot of respect for you guys that have families ,and I also envy you , I would realy like kids, good luck everyone in keeping your dreams alive.
    As long as I can model in N-scale, I know I'm not old

    My Flickr Pages

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    I agree with Steve. For decades I heard from my Grandfather about the HO empire he was going to build, someday. He would raid hobby shop closings and after Christmas sales. Then he had a stroke and passed away. My Aunts and Dad sold or split a collection that filled a bedroom three feet tall.

    I vowed that the model railroad could not be put on the tomorrow list. First came the 2.5x5 that was built into the 6x6 that became the 7.5x6.

    Just start building something.

    A 2x4 two inch thick piece of insulation is a great start for benchwork. It's light sturdy and very portable. Multiple pieces can be used for a larger layout.

    The cheapest layouts are just scenery. Newspaper, cardboard and thinned white glue are all that you need to make make mountains, valleys, hill and dales. Some cheap Tempra paint ties it all together and makes it more realistic.

    You don't need a lot of money for all the fancy stuff from Woodland Scenics but the ground foam can go a long way. Amazingly real rocks can be used for rock formations. The backyard and empty field are great sources for landscaping materials. Toy stores and craft shops have many materials that we pay double or triple the price because it's sold in a Model Railroading package.

    Find yourself an old model railroad book from the early 60's or before, they have lots of recipes for scenery on the cheap.

    The downside of operations is the need for structures. Because we model N scale the buildings are much larger and more expensive. But look on eBay for others' failures, Jimmi's work shows how some paint and some effort can make those bargains into fantastic realistic structures. But also consider the model available from Clever Models. Buy a CD (half the price of the larger Walthers kits) with a set of buildings and with a printer, cardstock, glue and a knife you can make a large number of custom structures. Just cut and paste.

    Another way to so is small. I've built traction layouts on 1x2 and 2x4. If you build using the T-Track modules you can build an empire one square foot at a time.
    Use what you know about the world to model…
    Learn from modeling what you don't know about the real world.



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    Along with the “am I buying the right stuff” question that I have from time to time I also get the “am I in the right scale” bug. Way back in my late teens when I made the switch from the Christmas 4*8 HO layout to my various failed N scale layout attempts I did it for space. I knew I would be sacrificing detail for space, but larger mainline runs, more cars etc was the important thing to me. At this juncture I do at times wonder if 10-15 highly detail cars, and 3-4 highly detailed locos is better then 20-30 locos that sit and do nothing…..
    So many questions, so few answers
    Be positive, Be polite, have fun with the hobby!

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    I hear ya.

    Many times I wish I had more room to do something, find something I want only to find its only available in HO or wish I had money to buy something shiny. But my biggest challenge is time. There's not enough hours in a day.

    I find taking a little break helps. I'll never have a basement size HO empire featured in a magazine, I'm slowly coming to terms with that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bessemer Bob View Post
    Along with the “am I buying the right stuff” question that I have from time to time I also get the “am I in the right scale” bug. Way back in my late teens when I made the switch from the Christmas 4*8 HO layout to my various failed N scale layout attempts I did it for space. I knew I would be sacrificing detail for space, but larger mainline runs, more cars etc was the important thing to me. At this juncture I do at times wonder if 10-15 highly detail cars, and 3-4 highly detailed locos is better then 20-30 locos that sit and do nothing…..
    So many questions, so few answers
    Why does the N scale do less than the HO would?
    My goal is do something. Then I can re-evaluate. If I think about too many questions, I can't do anything... Easy to say when I have minimal to show...

    -Steve
    Steve - Jugtown Modeler..............Don't know enough about railroading yet, but scale modeling is my life..............Web-Folio

    The introduction of so powerful an agent as steam to a carriage on wheels will make a great change in the situation of man. -- Thomas Jefferson, 1802


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    My answer, is to just do something.
    Do not worry if you have cars and engines that may or may not fit with what you will end up with.
    For most of us, the fun is in running trains.
    Ken Price
    http://s567.photobucket.com/albums/s...ice/?start=all

    It's around 1996-1999. UP, MP, SP. South Valley Railroad. Some where in the west of Texas. Near San Angelo.
    Started in 2007, Super Empire Builder with radio throttles.

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    I learned my lesson about moving quickly and building something. I've moved quite a bit, and for the past three moves, I waited a year or two before building, spending a lot of time pondering and designing and then finally starting to build. And then a professional opportunity popped up that was too good to pass up, so rip everything down and start over again. This time, I'm going much faster (starting 4 months after moving into a house) and will aim to get the mainlines in to start running trains and then get sidings and yards to follow. Hope to roll the first train in another 3 months or less so I can get a couple of years of enjoyment running trains vs just thinking about them.
    The Union Pacific.....Building America.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janbouli View Post
    I have no clue to what you are talking about, but then I am single, have a 4 bedroom house where I only need one to sleep , and as for finances.... well I already said I'm single . There is however one thing holding me down, time, why isn't it a 2 day work 5 day off cyclus

    I have a lot of respect for you guys that have families ,and I also envy you , I would realy like kids, good luck everyone in keeping your dreams alive.
    I am in the identical situation. I am single, have a three bedroom house (My fourth is the train room now which was a converted den. It has a small bathroom and has in the past been used as a bedroom) I have been very blessed from the company I work for so my problem now is, which two or three rooms do I want to make train rooms! I also agree with the 2 day work week. Time is my biggest enemy. My schedule fluctuates every week. I work anywhere from 4AM to midnight. (usually a 10 hour shift somewhere in those hours).

    I agree 100% with what Chicago said, start with a smallish layout and go from there. You can use them as building blocks and your taste will evolve with the layout. My biggest problem was having a 10x13 train room and thinking I HAD to fill it. No, ya don't. I collected all kinds of stuff before I even knew what I wanted. Man was THAT a mistake!

    As far as your own struggles go, build something small. I am building an inglenook and am having a blast with it. Mainly because I can envision the entire layout completed! With a room size layout, that is hard to do!

    Whatever you decide, it will be right. Because even if you attempt something and do not complete it, you will learn something!

    Be the kind of person your dog thinks you are.



    Ron

    For now, innocent bystander and occasional commentator

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    The way i see it is you only live once, so why not have fun??
    just do what you like and when you need help or advice this place is a great wealth of knowledge.
    To echo a few earlier replies though, its probably best to start small and expand from there, but just because you strt small doesnt mean you have to go big... you might enjoy small and have a bunch of smaller builds instead of that one big one, and when all is said and done, youll have collected more locos and rolling stock then you thought you would have, so theres even more potential there!!!
    Just go nuts. Sure money time and space are the 3 main issues, and for the majority you can usualy only have ample amounts of 2, the third will aways be a problem haha.
    Great Scott!!
    Models always under construction...
    https://phill-phill.wixsite.com/consolidatedhobbies

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    Quote Originally Posted by phillrulz91 View Post
    its probably best to start small and expand from there, but just because you strt small doesnt mean you have to go big... you might enjoy small and have a bunch of smaller builds instead of that one big one, and when all is said and done, youll have collected more locos and rolling stock then you thought you would have, so theres even more potential there!!!
    I am not in the position of having family or work interfere with my modeling so I can't say I feel your pain. However, I would use the advice from phillrulz, Rem and Lake - start small and learn what you really want or can afford. I am 4 yrs into building my 4x8 layout and can actually see a glimmer at the end of the tunnel. There were (and are) times when I wish I started smaller. I will be operating alone so it is unlikely that I will ever have a bigger layout, it just wouldn't make sense. So, sorry for being long winded but think small even if you never go big. In my mind a small layout is better than no layout.
    just my 2 cents...
    Yours,

    Gene

    Turtle Creek Industrial RR

    Link to my Flickr account: https://www.flickr.com/photos/epumph/

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    Wow! This is turning into a real Downer Lets turn it back up into a good trip .

    Here I Go, up on my soap box. "Don't get mad get Glad"

    This is a moment we have all had. It's usually, late at night after a few cold drinks, Very little if any progress on your layout, Kids need braces, school starting, Gas prices up, and wife tells you the electric bill for this month is $275.

    Well Bunkie get your head up off the table, you've been through tough times before, it's nothing new.

    You can Handel it, no matter how tough. Your family needs you to be positive and know they can depend on you.

    And you need your Model Trains. If you'll only let it, it'll be your great stress reliver. You don't have to Buy or build anything just visit the "Imagination" and plan for what you'll do when times get better.

    Just so you know, I know, where you're coming from. I spent $15,000.00 on stuff for my dream railroad. Then Health and Family issues, Earlie retirement, lost my Mom, and younger brother last year. My 401 K's took a big bad hit and now it's just SS and (thank the big guy) a decent pension. I've had to downsize my dream Layout from a two room double deck layout to a 40" by 102" modified HCD.

    I'm now trying, in this tough economy to sell off about $12,000 of stuff and I'm not going to get anywhere near what I paid.

    But that's all OK. When life hits you, hit it back . We all fall down but we'll get back up again. That's what it is to be an American, and this also includes all our friends around this beautiful globe.

    My and my Wife's health is greatly improved, My Daughter has a new job and moved out to her own apartment. We gave her a 2001 Ford Taurus. We've helped out our Son and he's saved his house and (again thank the Big Guy) He survived stage 4 Cancer of the Colon.

    I'm not looking for pity (poor Ron) this is Life and we all have to live it. Some have it better or worse than others. I've been told the He won't give you more than you can carry.

    I still have hope, dreams, especially Model Railroad dreams. And maybe next (no politics here just hope) year all will be better for us all and the good old USA and all our friends all over the world.

    So come on Smile, Be Happy, Because we are Model Railroaders, the ultimate dreamers and optimists. and be .

    See ya
    Ron
    Last edited by 69Z28; 11th Oct 2012 at 07:53 PM.
    "Men go and come,
    but earth abides." Ecclesiastes 1:4

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    Many of us choose N scale because you can get more layout in the space we have.

    Now I think the same principle should be applied to building the layout as well. Rescale your ideas, many of the principles cover multiple excuses.

    • Don't have a lot of time?
      • Consider a simpler plan
      • Choose a less complicated benchwork type
        • Fewer parts go together faster.
        • Sheet goods, like plywood or insulation board, can be built on immediately

      • Simplify the scenery
      • Don't super-detail everything
      • Get friends and family to help
      • Buy pre-built and painted items
      • Does your entire empire need to be built today?

    • Don't have a lot of money
      • Plan the layout for later additions
      • Do you really need 50 swtches?
      • Buy kits instead of pre-builts
      • Buy used, not new
      • Use common materials, rather than specialty items
      • Packaging styrofoam (the white stuff) is not structural and works great for mountains and hills
      • Scratch build stuff from common materials
        • Recycle everyday stuff into the layout, add paint and details to convert

      • Consider paper buildings.
        • They are not the same things as found in a coloring book.
        • Layering details makes a big difference
        • In many cases paper is more in scale than plastic or wood


    • Don't have a lot of space?
      • Consider a smaller plan
      • Think of a more focused plan
      • Consider a sectional plan
        • Sectionals can be stored stacked and assembled into a larger layout on a table of floor

      • T-Trak is designed to be moved on public transit
      • The Woodland Scenics modules are 3x3 and 3x1.5 feet in size
      • N-Trak modules are only 2x4 feet
      • Build the layout on a high shelf
        • A lot of furniture is under four feet high


    • Don't have a specific era?
      • Most natural scenery has been there and has not had major changes in a millennium
      • Many buildings have stood for a hundred years or more
        • DPM buildings are non era specific
        • Many wooden buildings built in the 1820s are still standing

      • People's clothing and vehicles are often the things that demonstrate time
        • These can be changed easily

      • Prices for goods and services reveal time period
        • Gasoline prices are a dead giveaway. Avoid them
        • Advertising is often very time specific. Try using more generic types

      • A farm looks like a farm no matter the decade. Yes, a horse is not a tractor but they can be switched or the farm could be run by one of the many retro religious groups
      • Although an auto may be decades old people may still be driving it. They also do rallies, driving in large groups.
      • Historical groups/museums often preserve older equipment and may have an outing with it.
      • Historical recreations can be found everywhere
      • The OLD WEST TOWNE is a classic tourist trap and often found out East, South or in the Midwest



    I think you get the idea. You really don't have an excuse for not putting track on a board and runnng trains.
    Use what you know about the world to model…
    Learn from modeling what you don't know about the real world.



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    man if you can't find anything good that suits you from the above post by Chicago then you probably should leave the hobby. I couldn't have said it better so I won't say anything more. Read and re-read that post and you will certainly find something to keep you in the hobby....
    Yours,

    Gene

    Turtle Creek Industrial RR

    Link to my Flickr account: https://www.flickr.com/photos/epumph/

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    The best thing I ever did was narrow my broad train interest down to be more specific. I read a lot of books and articles and things and found I was more interested in some than others, then adjusted my layout plans to fit what I liked. I also narrowed my layout plans to be much simpler design. A simple plan is not only more realistic, it's more likely to get finished. My only regret is not allowing for continuous running, but that can be fixed with a couple loops and some track behind the backdrop some day.

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    I suggest building some sort of temp layout mine right now is an oval with passing sidings and 3 sidings. it does a few things for you
    1 someplace to run trains!
    2 makes you look at your eqyipment does it flow together, and does it bother you if not? now you can possibly narrow down on equipment.
    3 can try things, and if don't like, great its temp anyways. s-turns cause derails, layout to high/low, (un)ballested track looks good/bad.

    finally, if can't decide on what want/like, find what you don't like/want and move away from that.

    for example if you find you don't like short 3 car trains, then you probably shpuldnt build a steam logging layout. likewise if 20 car unit trains cause you to scream about roundyrounds and trains serpentining, then perhaps a switching/logging layout would be better.

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    Railroad modelling is meant to be fun, but in the past I've fallen into the trap of being over ambitious and trying to build my dream layout that realistically I was never going to complete due of lack of time, space and money. End result: frustration and unhappiness. So my advice is be more modest and actually get the thing finished, and get playing trains rather than always worrying about striving for that distant and often unobtainable perfect goal. Afterall you can always add to the layout, but for goodness sake just finish it first!

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