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Thread: Sam Hill Junction - new layout

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    Spent a little time moving some stuff around the yard... just procrastinating on turnout controls, really.

    IMG_3929 by Paul Haas, on Flickr

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    All those headlights! Love it!!
    The Little Rock Line blog


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    The U Boat on the left is actually doing laps around the mainline with a short cut of cars, while the other 3 played some hopscotch to rearrange things in the yard.

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    Latest addition to Sam Hill Junction operational inventory - an IOAPD (Inattentive Operator Anti Pyrolysis Device):


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    Finally got around to wiring in the PSX-2... it took a little while, mostly because I don't really know what I'm doing and there was a CV that needed to be programmed.

    But I got it wired to protect two individual districts. The layout actually has three districts, but I wired the two yards together and separated the main. I didn't feel it was worth the cost of the extra PX device just to have the yards protected independently. It's not that complicated of a layout design.

    So it detects a short and cuts power for two seconds. It resets after two seconds, or tries to, unless the short remains. There is a way to have the breaker trip indefinitely until it is manually reset, but I cannot figure out how to configure that (and I did try).

    Last edited by pwh70; 17th Nov 2019 at 10:56 PM. Reason: typo in product model name

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    i thought nce had its own circuit breaker built in unless your using the booster.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sid View Post
    i thought nce had its own circuit breaker built in unless your using the booster.
    It does, but in NCE's own words Power Cab has built in over current sensing for basic self-protection that will continuously try to reset until destroyed if left uncorrected.

    For someone like me, who occasionally lets a train run without constantly monitoring it... the "until destroyed if left uncorrected" option became a reality - so I wanted better protection.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pwh70 View Post
    Finally got around to wiring in the PX-2... it took a little while, mostly because I don't really know what I'm doing and there was a CV that needed to be programmed.
    Don't I know that feeling

    Quote Originally Posted by pwh70 View Post
    But I got it wired to protect two individual districts. The layout actually has three districts, but I wired the two yards together and separated the main. I didn't feel it was worth the cost of the extra PX device just to have the yards protected independently. It's not that complicated of a layout design.
    As long as you don't plan on operating both yards independently (as in: If one stupid operator runs into a misaligned turnout, it will shut down both yards instead of just one, so the other yard master will shake his fists), that's a safe design.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwh70 View Post
    It does, but in NCE's own words Power Cab has built in over current sensing for basic self-protection that will continuously try to reset until destroyed if left uncorrected.

    For someone like me, who occasionally lets a train run without constantly monitoring it... the "until destroyed if left uncorrected" option became a reality - so I wanted better protection.
    That sounds like you should revisit the PX-2 programming again - because from over here your description of the PX-2 behavior seems to be very similar to what the PowerCab is supposed to be doing? As in "keep trying to turn power back on until destroyed"? Although it can be much faster, with shorter "power on time" than the PowerCab, leading to much less damage? We do have "auto resetting" boosters at our modular layouts, but trains to not run unattended there...

    YMMV,
    Heiko

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heiko View Post
    because from over here your description of the PX-2 behavior seems to be very similar to what the PowerCab is supposed to be doing?
    Yes, but it seems to have a little more self-control... the Powercab would shut everything down, but it seems like it was constantly "trying again" at millisecond intervals. The PX shuts down for 2 seconds.. tries again and shuts right down again for another 2 seconds if it still "sees" a problem. I think the PSX 2 is much smarter(?) and is trying to manage false overloads, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heiko View Post
    Although it can be much faster, with shorter "power on time" than the PowerCab, leading to much less damage?
    Yes, I would agree.

    I need to figure out how to do the manual reset, and not have it cycle on its own. From the PSX manual:



    I haven't figured out how to do what's described in that last sentence yet.
    Last edited by pwh70; 17th Nov 2019 at 10:57 PM. Reason: Typo in product model name

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    I checked google for a "PX-2" but only found "PSX-2" from DCC Specialities. If that's the one, check page 9 of the manual:

    Quote Originally Posted by https://tonystrains.com/pdf/dcc_specialties/PSX-Manual-Rev-N-Software-Rev-L-Booklet.pdf
    J7-1 and J7-2 are the auto/manual reset input. If the connections are open, the breaker will automatically try to reset every two seconds [default]. If the terminals are connected together with a SPST toggle switch or N/C push button switch, then the breaker will remain off after a short until the connection from J7-1 to J7-2 is momentarily opened or an accessory ON command is sent to the PSX on-off accessory address [see Section B item 13].
    So basically as long as J7-1 and J7-2 are connected, the PSX won't reset. Open the connection -> reset.

    Hope this helps,
    Heiko

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    I prefer a system that trips and then stays OFF until I clear the short. Then I do the reset myself. Much safer.
    Cheers!
    Gordon
    Rheinland Bayern Bahn
    https://www.nscale.net/forums/showthr...4-x-9-5-layout

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heiko View Post
    So basically as long as J7-1 and J7-2 are connected, the PSX won't reset. Open the connection -> reset.
    First of all, you are correct! PSX-2!

    After reading your summary above, I went back to the manual, and that part (which I had skimmed previously) did make more sense the second time around. I'll have to call DCC Specialties tomorrow, unless someone can make sense of their directions regarding "connecting" J7-1 and J7-2.

    J7-1 & 2 are the "manual reset", and their instructions say to "install the manual reset jumper" (across J7-1 and J7-2). The manual's diagram makes them look like nice little flathead screw connectors (for a jumper wire) - but they're not. I can't imagine it would be a solder connection without them explaining it that way. They refer in several places to a "manual reset jumper", but I don't know what that actually is.

    J7-1 & 2 are the first two of the four holes shown circled below. Once I have the "jumper" installed, connecting these two, I can program the reset function on my Powercab, in lieu of the in line switch they describe.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pwh70 View Post
    First of all, you are correct! PSX-2!

    After reading your summary above, I went back to the manual, and that part (which I had skimmed previously) did make more sense the second time around. I'll have to call DCC Specialties tomorrow, unless someone can make sense of their directions regarding "connecting" J7-1 and J7-2.

    J7-1 & 2 are the "manual reset", and their instructions say to "install the manual reset jumper" (across J7-1 and J7-2). The manual's diagram makes them look like nice little flathead screw connectors (for a jumper wire) - but they're not. I can't imagine it would be a solder connection without them explaining it that way. They refer in several places to a "manual reset jumper", but I don't know what that actually is.

    J7-1 & 2 are the first two of the four holes shown circled below. Once I have the "jumper" installed, connecting these two, I can program the reset function on my Powercab, in lieu of the in line switch they describe.

    https://www.nscale.net/forums/attach...3&d=1574044524

    Paul,
    I would image they are referring to these little jewels: https://tonystrains.com/product/tony...als-4-position
    These solder to the board and then you have the screw connections.

    If you call them, I would also ask them to explain the details and how to set them up for the MANUAL reset for sure?
    Last edited by Allen H.; 18th Nov 2019 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Spelking
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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen H. View Post
    I would image they are referring to this little jewels
    That would make sense, Allen. I guess they thought they were dealing with someone who knows something about anything?!

    thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by pwh70 View Post
    the Powercab would shut everything down, but it seems like it was constantly "trying again" at millisecond intervals
    OK, what's going on? When I short the track my Powercab goes thru a 10 or 15 second startup message sequence on the throttle. After that is over it applies power to the rails again so I can run my loco (or it reboots again if I have not fixed the short). I've always assumed that this long reboot provides sufficient protection against any kind of overheating, and there is nothing in my copy of the manual about
    Quote Originally Posted by pwh70 View Post
    destroyed if left uncorrected

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    Quote Originally Posted by Allen H. View Post
    I would image they are referring to this little jewels: https://tonystrains.com/product/tony...als-4-position
    These solder to the board and then you have the screw connections.
    I agree, and now with your large pic I understand the confusion Seems like DCC Specialities made the manual for the "fully equipped" version and neglected to mention the fact that you have to solder the screw terminals in there yourself...

    Heiko

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    Quote Originally Posted by NtheBasement View Post
    OK, what's going on?
    I don't know - mine definitely did not behave the way you describe yours.
    I can dig up that quote later today, but maybe it doesn't apply to your model... but I'll find it later....

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    If you want to avoid a lot of hassle, then these might be your solution. I have these installed and they cut the power until the short is fixed with very little wiring involved. Primary power from the Power Cab on one end, and block wiring out the other end.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dave68124 View Post
    If you want to avoid a lot of hassle, then these might be your solution.
    Wow, Dave - that looks almost too simple... wish I saw this before dropped $80 on the PSX's!!

    Quote Originally Posted by NtheBasement View Post
    When I short the track my Powercab goes thru a 10 or 15 second startup message sequence on the throttle.
    So... I don't know why you have something different, but sounds like you do. I couldn't find the language I saw elsewhere on their website, but I found the same "warning" on the page for the CP6 device that Dave provided above (it's an NCE product). From that page:

    You MUST use some form of Protection!
    The SB5 and Power Cab have built in over current sensing for basic self-protection that will continuously try to reset until destroyed if left uncorrected. They do not have manual breakers that will trip or fuses that will blow.

    https://ncedcc.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/.../201045719-CP6



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    While my son was at school this semester, I sent him a couple 3D files to print in the lab he started working in.... 500 and 1000 gallon propane tanks. I've never done anything with 3D before.. they still need some painting and weathering - but they came out pretty cool!
    I have to figure out the best way to trim the bases..





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