Florian Poles (Make your own trolley poles)

[ChicagoNW]

One of the great mysteries for N scale traction modelers is how to get power from the overhead wire. For modelers that recreate systems using pantographs and bow collectors there are commercial solutions from Sommerfeldt and Bachmann. For a brief moment there was hope for those use trolley poles but Miniatures by Eric did not find the goldmine he expected and dropped all his traction products.

For those who needed trolley poles, they were pretty much on their own until N-Cat came into the picture in the early 80s. The N-Cat crew were the pioneers of running under wire in North America and created several pole designs. While all the designs functioned few looked realistic. Some bordered on HO scale.

So when I got into N scale traction a few years ago I studied the ideas from the N-Cats, and even tried a couple of the designs. Well after that I said I needed a better design. After a while experimented with variation on the N-Cat designs I was stumped.

While at work photographing a recessed light trim ring for a promo sheet, I was inspired. A Torsion spring! not a coil. So the basic idea was set. Some experimentation with brass shapes wasn't giving me the results I wanted. One day I wandered into the jewelry making aisle. Lo and behold many of the shapes I wanted were ready to buy and only needed tweaking and assembly!

Thus, the FLORIAN TROLLEY POLE was born. I gave it the name of my Dad's Dad a longtime conductor on the Chicago Surface Lines in Chicago. The design is not as realistic as I hoped but extremely functional. Recently on the Yahoo Traction Group we were taking about poles and I needed to show a fellow member what kind of spring I used. None of my cameras can take a picture of a 0.0125 wire spring so I ended up drawing the whole assembly sequence. Then I wrote a quick little article on how I made the poles.

So here's the point. Want to make easy trolley poles cheaply? Her's how to do it…

[Trentbradbury]

Great article...your instructions may just be the key to an overhead wire layout..it certainly has me scheming about trying. Thank you for writing and sharing.
Trent

[ChicagoNW]

Welcome to the Forum!

Glad to hear the instructions make it sound easy to do.

Check out the N Scale Traction Yahoo Group where you'll find a lot more of the information you'll need to get going.
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...tions/messages
The old N-Cats hang out there.

For the poles that hold up the wire check out
http://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/e11020...EL%3AUS%3A1124
on eBay. He makes several different designs based on prototype poles. Even though you may not find N Scale poles in the store at the moment, contact him, and he'll be able to get some to you. I used his poles on the GRS Museum layout.

Check out Snowton and the Garfield Ridge Streetcar Museum for my simple overhead wire layouts.
https://www.nscale.net/forums/album.php?&u=5832

As always, if you have a question, post or contact me.

[Trentbradbury]

Boy that's a great little layout...The double ended pcc is screaming for one of the many MBTA paint schemes. I remember red and white, orange and white (cream) and green and white. The CT. trolley museum has one in green and white. BTW I have been lurking for a couple of years and have been fooling around in N Scale off and on for over 35 years.

[Trentbradbury]

http://www.ct-trolley.org/collection...eetcar3333.jpg

[Trentbradbury]

http://www.ct-trolley.org/collection/streetcar3333.php

[ChicagoNW]

The Bachmann PCCs and Brills make great fodder for bashing. Because the white gear syndrome damaged many, the bodies can be had for next to nothing. Better still the new and improved versions are basically the same. This means a new chassis for a retired paint scheme is just a swap away.

The double ended unit would be a fairly easy bash using two bodies.

I sorta model the Chicago Surface Lines, predecessor to the CTA and RTA. I've kinda modeled several of the many styles of cars that they bought or built.

That PCC is not double ended but the largest PCC ever built, a Green Hornet. They were 50 feet long and nine and half feet wide. The single side of doors had three sets on it. At the back where the conductor collected your fare as you entered there were three doors. In the middle there was one and by the driver there were two by which you exited. The Green Hornets were the last 600 cars purchased by the CSL in 1947. They were retired in 1958, many donated parts to what became the 6000 series of L cars.

The Green Hornet paint scheme is used on standard PCC cars used by Kenosha WS and San Francisco CA.



Before the war in 1938 the CSL ordered 83 PCC cars. These differed from the later order in a few ways. Brakes, windows, door arrangements and paint scheme. The cars were painted in a scheme much different than the Cream over Red the CSL had been using for years. The cars came painted in an Ivory over Dark Blue with a red stripe separator line. Hence the nickname Blue Goose. The postwar order came in the CTA scheme of Cream over Green with an Orange separator line. Thus Green Hornets after the popular radio hero. The Blue Geese had a 3-2-1 door arrangement starting from the front. The Green Hornets a 2-1-3. The windows on the Blue Geese were large, much like those in the photo. The Green Hornets had separate windows for seated and standing passengers. The brakes on the GH were electric while the BGs used air operated ones.

[Trentbradbury]

Thank you for the update on PCC's I had no Idea that the Blue Goose or the Green Hornet existed. If I read this correctly ( drinking my coffee and trying to wake up) the Blue Goose paint scheme was used on the 50' cars prewar. I wonder if these were built by Osgood Bradley in Worcester Mass. where most (not all) of the custom PCC's were built (MBTA picture window cars were built there and the Dallas double enders.) Is that a body you kit bashed? Is it available? I can remember as a kid upsetting dad when I would take my American Flyer Atlantic and all the freight cars off the track off the track and pretend the caboose was a PCC car, pushing it from stop to stop. After I moved to Central Mass. I became a member of the Ct Trolley museum until my health got bad. I did have opportunity to operate a fair amount of the equipment. My first model PCC was an "o" scale MTH in Boston paint. I messed with it for a year and sold it ( I never really liked it, I think it was the third rail that upset me)I have always been a multi scale model railroader purchasing my first "n scale" in 1976..
Back to the double ended cars. and Bachmann trolleys The inexpensive price is what really attracted me. The ability to kitbash and modify without breaking the bank is awesome. I started to modify a Bachmann combine in "G" scale to build a copy of the Springfield Terminal #10 freight motor car in G scale. I gave up on that because of the cost of completing it. The Blue Goose paint is sharp. was it ever used on a standard PCC ? Did any of these cars survive?
Trent

[ChicagoNW]

A majority of the CSL equipment was in the 50 foot range. After all, it was one of the largest systems in the world.

I haven't tried a Blue Goose yet. The big windows pose a bit of an obstacle to my skills. Once one of the guys like IHP, Island Model Works, GHB or 3rDBoxcar make a prewar unit I'll take two and do a bash.

Most of the CSL's PCC cars were built "locally". The odd one out was a demonstrator made by Brill #7001 in 1934. Pullman also made a sample that year #4001. Neither were exactly what we call a PCC but they were commissioned by the Council and were mechanically the same as the later ones.

The 83 Blue Geese were built by the St. Louis Car Company

#4002-4051
#7002-7034

The 600 Green Hornets were built by
Pullman

#4062-4196
#4272-4371

and the St. Louis Car Company

#4052-4061
#7035-7115
#4372-4411
#7116-7274

According to my info from CERA none of the 3000 CSL cars were from Osgood-Bradley. Most were produced in the Midwest. A bunch of them in house.

Getting back to bashing Ted Roy has some great YouTube video on his conversions. He has mixed the Bachmann Brill with the old Roundhouse Shorty cars with great success.

For running your cars in the street Tomix/TomyTec Wide Tram Track makes it a snap.

[ChicagoNW]

A lot of the survivors are at the Illinois Railway Museum…
http://www.irm.org/

Here's picture of the PCC family…
http://www.irm.org/gallery/CSL4001
http://www.irm.org/gallery/CSL4021
http://www.irm.org/gallery/CTA4391

[Trentbradbury]

Thank you for posting the photos the Interior layout is different than anything that was run in Boston. Boston typically had double seats on one side only with either a long bench with the back towards the windows or a single seat facing forward. My memory is a little foggy on the double ender cars I recall a combination of seating arrangements benches on both sides facing each other and double seats facing forward and back. The other thing I have learned over the years about PCC cars is they are similar but not necessarily the same subtle differences abound. some more obvious than others. Even if a museum has a scrap pile of PCC's to pull parts from they may not have what they need to repair the cars. This is especially true with the electrical ( I was going to use electronics but that would not have been correct) In later years jumping on a PCC in Boston was a crap shoot age began to take its toll and they would frequently brake down. The PCC was one of the icons of American transportation. Including a streetcar scene on a mid 20th century train layout is incredibly easy and is frequently ignored. I hope some others jump in here and post some pictures. I hope to be able to post some soon.
Trent

[ChicagoNW]

The extra six inches to a foot the Chicago cars had on others systems added a lot of space to the interiors. The CSL or one of it's predecessor roads at one time tried benches parallel to the walls. The nickname for the cars were the "Bowling Alleys". They were not popular with passengers at the time. Too many people left standing. Many of the other cars used the flip back seats for the direction change. But the Sedans (Peter Witt Style) and the PCCs were single sided so the seats always faced forward.

I look forward to your adventures in traction. It's a lot easier than when I started. No more plaster streets for one! Because of the differences between all the roads equipment bodies other than a generic version will be a cottage industry. But it's been that way since the beginnings of N-Cat. I've asked the builders for sectional type bodies so that it was easier to make the different PCCs, but they only want to make full bodies.

On a happier note, if you want to recreate a chunk of the old Boston System, Model Railroader offers a eBook(pdf) on starting out with electric railroading. It is called Modeling Electrified Railroads, formerly Beginning Traction Modeling. It contains a bunch of articles gleaned from the magazine pages. It's main feature is a multi-part article, Start Modeling Traction! We begin a six part HO project layout based on Boston's famed trolley lines. It takes you through all the steps needed to build and run a layout representing the Riverside line and the Brookline branch.
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/mrpdf001.html

In addition to the MR eBook you might want to get the traction twins from Carstens…
http://carstensbookstore.com/tractioncombo.html

While the information contained in the material is about HO and larger the info is useful. As N scalers we can cheat a little more and have ready made track to use.

[Trentbradbury]

It looks like I will be buying some books soon. The Riverside line was a large part of my early life...Its how I got into Boston to see the Red Sox on day's I skipped school. The Riverside line was originally part of the Boston and Albany Railroad it still has 2 stations designed by famed architect HH Richardson that have been repurposed. Parts of the line were used to transport gravel fill from Needham to the Back Bay of Boston to fill that area. My thoughts had been to steal little scenes from what is now the green line and use them to create the feel of the trolley lines in Boston. One of the things I had to get used to after moving to Western Mass is that trolley lines out here typically used single track with passing sidings and a far more relaxed schedule. Trains (as the MBTA calls them) can run minutes apart on the Riverside line. Rural lines were nowhere near as busy. Typically there usually was a connection with a larger railroad to move both passengers and freight locally on the rural lines. This held true for the B&A on the Riverside line in the early 20th century. Freight was often left at passenger stations and transferred to a streetcar for local delivery. I am going to begin my search for a hard copy of the model railroader book...Even though I have a tablet and several computers the operating system for a conventional publication is far more reliable.

Trent

[ChicagoNW]

I don't know if there actually is a real book. This may have always been a PDF. But there's nothing stopping you from printing and binding your own hard copy. For hard copies you might have to hunt down the original magazine series.

When I first started traction, I visited DesPlaines Hobby. I brought my first efforts of kit-bashing with me and showed the owner. He marveled at the detail and called over another man. He was the author of another Traction Project series in MR. His name, Bruce Goehmann author of The O'Dell County Traction project, (Nov88-Apr89) a six part series. After a few positive comments Bruce then went into the old MR issues and found me four of the six issues. I still have not found the other two. He has also been feature in the magazine a couple of other times for his Midland Electric Line.





Now another book that I really like is the Traction Guidebook for Model RailRoaders Edited by Mike Schaefer pulblished by Kalmbach but sadly out of print but definitely worth hunting down.

You have not felt transit withdrawal until you've lived in exurban Georgia. Last streetcar spotted in 1938 in Atlanta proper.

[Trentbradbury]

Sitting here wondering what trolley company road names has Bachmann produced. I have Toronto, St. Louis and Kansas City...I know that they have also produced a yellow trolley, CTA, San Francisco , Philadelphia PTC, SEPTA , and probably a bunch of others

Trent

[ChicagoNW]

Well, here's what's currently in production…

• PCC

http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=265_668_387

• Brill

http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=265_668_388

• Peter Witt

http://shop.bachmanntrains.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=265_668_670

Before Bachmann did the revisions they were only selling…

• Yellow PCC 7404 (Which is from Brooklyn)
• PTC

An old white box for a PCC had this list…

• 52-6289C1–SEPTA
• 52-6289C2–CTA (Chicago Transit Authority)
• 52-6289C3–PE (Pacific Electric)
• 52-6289C4–PR (Pittsburgh Railways)
• 52-6289C5–Undecorated

Never saw a early run SEPTA unless it is the PTC

A later run of the HO Chicago car is marked for the CSL (Chicago Surface Lines) Neither car has close to the correct paint. Not all the schemes done in HO are on the N scale version.

Take a look at the Brill cars is in my Albums. A couple may be later issues like the Happy Holidays scheme…
https://www.nscale.net/forums/album.php?albumid=1111

[Trentbradbury]

You probably knew I was going to say this " I wish they would make a Boston Pcc" but my plan is to custom paint some ( Many Variations) As Usual no time this weekend to bring my little layout out and run some trains. I did order another PCC. I suspect a trip to Michaels is coming up. I would like to get some trolley pole parts.
Trent

[ChicagoNW]

And my question is, Will you do the body modifications?
You've got at least three or four, major body styles to consider.
http://www.nycsubway.org/wiki/The_PC...ot_So_Standard

The air intake is an easy one. Either shorten the one on the body or chop it off and use Evergreen quarter round to form a full body length one.

The windows can get tricky. But the simplest thing would be to fill the standee windows with some Squadron White Putty. Then you might file the windows larger. Or going whole hog, cut the space out and add back in the frames with some styrene stock.

The Subway door could be done on it's own or in conjunction with the window mods. To me cutting up two shells, just for one door, is such a waste. I would suggest making castings. But not just the doors, include some of the surround. It will make it easier to blend into the rest of the body.

A detail like the roof headlight can be as simple or complex as you want. For an operating one, I can think of two routes. One use one of the crimp rings for the housing and feed Fiber optic through it and point the other end at the stock headlight. The other would involve using a "top hat" 2mm LED. It could be built into the roof with the round portion sticking out. Be careful of resistor placement, it can melt the plastic body.
Workcar headlight.jpg

One of the easiest mods is adding the couplers. Kato actually makes something very similar to the ones used for mass transit. The Kato 11-703 and 11-707 are close once you cut off the hose bars on each side of the coupler. The 703 is black and 707 is gray. They work so well that I've picked up a whole train by one car.

---

One modification that every PCC owner should do, is shave the chassis. The body sits WAY TOO HIGH above the street level. You can actually see the over-sized wheels! I've done it with just a hand file.

1. First you take the chassis completely apart, marking the top side of the motor.
2. Then put the two halves of the chassis back together. That way the filings can't ruin the mechanicals.
3. File off the body mount tabs of they'll negate the rest of the work.
4. The rest of the filing is to the top of the chassis. Remove about a 1/16 of an inch or until you remove the lip on the motor compartment.
5. Then slightly round the top edges. If you are extremely careful you can avoid messing up the passengers. But a paint marker or two, can make fixes.
6. I have scrapped the blackening off the various electrical contact points of the chassis, like the boxes the motor brushes touch, the pole contact point and the places where the trucks contact the chassis. I don't know if it helps but it doesn't hurt.
7. Clean the chassis thoroughly.
8. Black and white paint markers can be used for touch ups on the chassis.
9. Reassemble the chassis
   
   1. Make sure the correct side of the motor is up.
   2. Don't forget the insulating washers that separate the two chassis halves
   3. The trucks can be inserted with the two halves attached but not tightened
   
   
10. To keep the body on I've used styrene strip glued to the bottom of the chassis. Do this with the body on for proper alignment. Be careful not to glue the body to the styrene or chassis.

This makes a good project while waiting for paint and body mods to cure.

[nscaler711]

Chicago, If I could thank this entire thread, I would. As much as I like Catenary and the like it doesn't seem that feasible, after trying my hand in N and HO Catenary, it seems not costly but overwhelming, but its nice to see that it works for some people.

[ChicagoNW]

Have you tried simple trolley wire like I run?
The first pole is the toughest to solder the wire to. But after the wire is up you can improve how it works. One thing I've done is to simplify things. The shoes are not scale sized but extremely functional. Although over-sized I use commercial poles to hang the overhead from. Rather than use the recommended and much stiffer phosphor-bronze wire I use silver jewelry wire. I have yet to add the pull-off wires that are used in the prototype in the curves. I have used O and HO frogs at the switched as my own ones are twice the size. I'vw never tried the ones that Proto87 etches for N scale. But TedRoy does after I suggested them. The proof is on YouTube.

Although a lot more expensive the catenary kits from Europe should be fairly easy. All you have to do is assemble parts. Now if you build your own catenary I can see how that it could be too difficult to build your own.

Maybe try again on a small test piece like I did. Recreating the Northeast Corridor or the Milwaukee Mountain Line can be a bit daunting.