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Thread: MT&P Layout: Running Trains...

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    Default MT&P Layout: Running Trains...

    Moose decide to create thread chronicling the many challenges and successes of running various locomotives & rolling stock on the Mt Tahoma & Pacific Railroad.
    If the challenges () are layout related, Moose will update the "G-Shaped Pacific NW" layout thread with how the "challenges" are dealt with.

    If the challenges () are locomotive or rolling stock related, Moose will likely update this thread as needed.
    If there are successes with, well, anything, there will be much partying by Moose!

    Word of warning: There may be many Moose stampedes in and out of the layout room if things don't go well. Not for the faint of heart or wee peoples...

    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Default 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain Pulling California Zephyr...

    Moose learn that the D&RGW F-3 diesels that were scheduled to pull the Denver to Salt Lake City leg of the California Zephyr, well, broke down like the weak little diesel engines they are...

    Sooo the mighty 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain steam locomotive of the Denver & Rio Grande Western came to the rescue!


    4-8-2 Hvy Mt DnRGW Pulling California Zephyr 1 090714.jpg4-8-2 Hvy Mt DnRGW Pulling California Zephyr 2 090714.jpg4-8-2 Hvy Mt DnRGW Pulling California Zephyr 3 090714.jpg4-8-2 Hvy Mt DnRGW Pulling California Zephyr 4 090714.jpg

    4-8-2 Hvy Mt DnRGW Pulling California Zephyr 5 090714.jpg Sadly, the number of passenger coaches far exceeds the length of the passenger siding. Only six coaches with steam locomotive fit on the siding without blocking the mainline...

    4-8-2 Hvy Mt DnRGW Pulling California Zephyr 6 090714.jpg4-8-2 Hvy Mt DnRGW Pulling California Zephyr 7 090714.jpg4-8-2 Hvy Mt DnRGW Pulling California Zephyr 8 090714.jpg
    Successes:
    The Spectrum locomotive pulled well all around the mainline, including up a ~ 1.25 - 1.50% incline, and speed seemed reasonable all the way up to full power.

    Challenges:
    The Kato coupler on the passenger coach did not match well with the Spectrum tender coupler, therefore coupling was difficult and the coach uncoupled from said tender during a full power run up the ~ 1.5% incline. Although the coaches went flying down the track, they did slow to a stop in the flat area at West Port. A very good thing, because a freight train was on its way to West Port...

    The locomotive lead truck and some of the trucks of passenger coaches pushed the Atlas #5 turnout points into the straight position due to lack of switch motor or other resisting mechanism.
    Last edited by Moose2013; 7th Sep 2014 at 02:53 PM.
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Default EMD NW2 Pulling Freight...

    Moose learn that all the MT&P RR motive power was in service elsewhere, so Northern Pacific RR NW2 diesel switcher had to move some freight around the region ... A rather slow and monotonous thing to watch ... ... ... unless you love freight trains! Baaa-zinga!


    4-8-2 Hvy Mt Passenger Train meets NW2 Switcher Pulling Short Freight 1 090714.jpg Freight train meets passenger train...

    NW2 Switcher Freight Derailment at Passenger Turnout 090714.jpg Derailment at passenger turnout ... Points move under light action due to lack of retaining spring, or turnout motor...

    NW2 Switcher Freight Moose Inspection Stop 1 090714.jpgNW2 Switcher Freight Moose Inspection Stop 2 090714.jpg Moose inspector, checking for damage after derailment...

    NW2 Switcher Freight passes Kat the Cat 090714.jpg Chief layout inspector, Kat the cat...

    NW2 Switcher Freight with 4-8-2 Hvy Mt Passenger Train in Background 1 090714.jpg Freight train running along to-be-hidden reverse loop, passing Moose inspector as he goes, with Passenger train heading up the to-be-hidden back side of the mainline heading from the water front to the town yard & passenger depot above...

    Successes:
    The Kato locomotive pulled well all around the mainline, including up a ~ 1.25 - 1.50% incline, albeit only pulling four cars & a caboose (which seems prototypical), and speed seemed reasonable all the way up to full power.

    Challenges:
    The Kato coupler on the locomotive did not match well with the Intermountain box car's Micro-Trains coupler, therefore coupling was difficult...

    The box car trucks pushed the Atlas 21.25/15 R turnout points into the 21.25 R position due to lack of switch motor or other resisting mechanism.
    Last edited by Moose2013; 7th Sep 2014 at 02:56 PM.
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

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    Default F-3 Pulling California Zephyr...

    Moose learn that the D&RGW F-3 diesels were coming out of the repair shops, so test runs pulling passenger train were in order...

    0 DnRGW 4-8-2 Hvy Mt Passanger Train Backed into Yard 090714.jpg The 4-8-2 backs the coaches into yard A/D track...

    1 DnRGW Diesel Single Pulling Passanger Train 090714.jpg Moose inspects cab unit before releasing it for test runs...

    2 DnRGW Diesel Single Pulling Passanger Train 090714.jpg The single unit diesel, much to the surprise of everyone, was able to pull the 11 coaches ... Some steam locomotive engineers fainted...

    3 DnRGW Diesel A-B Pulling Passanger Train 090714.jpg Moose decide to test an A-B consist with full train...

    4 DnRGW Diesel A-B-B Pulling Passanger Train 090714.jpg Moose decide to check full A-B-B consist with full train. She looked good, so Moose let her take the now very very late California Zephyr on to Salt Lake City...

    5 DnRGW Diesel A-B-B Pulling Passanger Train 090714.jpg Moose discover diesel consist break down again ... No one was surprised ... Well, except maybe the diesel engineer, he fainted...

    Successes:
    A single Kato locomotive pulled well all around the mainline, including up a ~ 1.25 - 1.50% incline, and speed seemed reasonable all the way up to full power. Had no problems with running 2 and 3 F-3 units together without "speed matching," which Moose thought wouldn't be need since they're all the same Kato mechanisms...

    The A unit was equipped for sound, and it was nice, until Moose tried to park the diesels. Need to know how to turn off sound when not running on a live track...

    Challenges:
    The Kato coupler on the passenger coach did not match as well as would be expected with the Kato couplers.

    The trucks of passenger coaches did not play well with the Atlas #5 turnouts, when backing up the coaches through the A/D track. Hoping that this will no longer be an issue when turnout motors are installed...

    Last edited by Moose2013; 7th Sep 2014 at 07:22 PM.
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Default 2-10-2 Pulling California Zephyr...

    Moose had to find replacement motive power for California Zephyr since the F-3's died, again ... Only locomotive available was one borrowed from the Kansas City Southern RR...

    6 KCS 2-10-2 Pulling Passanger Train 090714.jpg Looking good heading up the ~ 1.25 - 1.50% grade...

    7 KCS 2-10-2 Pulling Passanger Train 090714.jpg Still looking good heading up the grade ... What's that in the background? A small freight train is hauling arse up the grade right behind the passenger train!

    8 KCS 2-10-2 Pulling Passanger with 2-6-0 Behind 090714.jpg Moose called in to investigate a near disaster ... The crew of the small freight train were on a short haul out of the yard when they noticed that the passenger train left without its last two coaches! Unbeknownst to Moose, the engineer of the 2-6-0 was steaming up that grade behind the 2-10-2 powered train just a tad faster than it should have - it actually managed to catch up to and push the passenger train up the grade!

    9 KCS 2-10-2 Pulling Passanger meets UP 2-6-0 090714.jpg The two trains pass each other in West Port, thankful that neither trains, crews or passengers were seriously hurt...

    Successes:
    The 2-10-2 Spectrum locomotive pulled well all around the mainline, including up a ~ 1.25 - 1.50% incline, and speed seemed reasonable all the way up to full power. Given the smaller driver diameter of the 2-10-2 and the very slow speed at highest speed setting, it was obvious that this was no passenger-speed motive power...

    Challenges:
    There were a few problems with the leading truck derailing at one of the Atlas #5 turnouts, which seems to give problems to other locomotives and rolling stock.

    Biggest lesson learned:
    Don't multi-task! Moose paying attention and photographing 2-10-2 train whilst changing the speeds of both trains. Moose totally forgot just where and how fast that wee 2-6-0 was traveling!
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Default 2-6-0 Prairie Pulling Freight...

    Moose inspecting Union Pacific 2-6-0 Prairie for possible purchase by Mt Tahoma & Pacific RR.

    1 2-6-0 UP Pulling Freight 090714.jpg Moose inspection complete. Time for the MT&P engineers to take the controls, and give 'er a test run...

    2 2-6-0 UP Pulling Freight 090714.jpg Moose hear of problem with 2-6-0 test run...

    3 2-6-0 UP Pulling Freight 090714.jpg Moose inspect locomotive derailment. It seems that someone had "accidentally" switched the turnouts from the mainline leading to the Port Tracks. As can be seen here, there are no tracks leading to East Port. The engineer found out the hard way...

    4 2-6-0 UP Pulling Freight 090714.jpg Moose finally approves purchase of locomotive and puts 'er to work straight away ... Moose decide to ride freight train to keep an eye on train crew. Still suspicious of the recent "accident..."

    5 2-6-0 UP Pulling Freight 090714.jpg Moose giving "high five" to diesel engineer ... Moose love riding trains!

    6 2-6-0 UP Pulling Freight 090714.jpg Freight train coming down the mainline grade...

    7 2-6-0 UP Pulling Freight 090714.jpg Random close-up of locomotive...

    8 2-6-0 UP Pulling Freight 090714.jpg Moose enjoying train ride ... Moving forward to give the locomotive crew a "high five..."

    Successes:
    The Bachmann 2-6-0 runs okay, and pulls as much freight as it will ever need to...

    Challenges:
    The locomotive is a wee bit noisy with some hesitant spots - hoping that these issues will go away in time, after its broken in and possibly the track needs some cleaning as well...

    Tends to derail a little easier than the other steam locomotives on Atlas #5 turnouts...
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Moose,

    The heavy mountain came with the older non-operational knuckle coupler that B-mann has replaced with their McHenry coupler. The fix is to remove it and replace it with an MT 1128. You can put the 1128 into the B-mann coupler box and reuse the B-mann spring. However, it tends to wander around a bit if you do it that way. The best fix is to replace the B-mann coupler box with a MT 1133 coupler box. The MT 1133 box is a tight fit and you may have to file a little off the sides of the mounting bracket or speak a few words I can't type here. But once it is in it will stay.
    I could have been clearer: put the 1128 coupler in the small MT metal retaining "U", place both in an MT 1133 plastic box, and put this assembly into the spot where the B-mann coupler was.

    Have fun, Mark
    Last edited by Mark.S+10; 10th Sep 2014 at 05:41 PM.

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    Default A 2-6-0 Prairie Pulling the California Zephyr?

    Moose had to find replacement motive power for California Zephyr, at least to get it to its next stop, since the 2-10-2 had to go back to the Kansas City Southern RR...

    1 2-6-0 UP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpgMoose had to inventory the available motive power...

    2 2-6-0 UP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpgOnly locomotive available was one recently purchased 2-6-0 Prairie!

    3 2-6-0 UP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpg Everything looked good going down grade, although the train did pick up a tad bit of speed...

    4 2-6-0 UP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpg On the grade back up, well, the 2-6-0, she huffed 'n she puffed, but she could only get the eleven coaches back up to West Port, and then she stalled...

    5 2-6-0 UP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpg She decoupled the train in the West Port flats, and headed back up to Moose to report on the situation...

    Successes:
    The Bachmann 2-6-0 didn't get pushed off the tracks while going down a ~ 1.25 - 1.50% grade, and she managed to pull the eleven Kato coaches partly back up a ~ 1.25% max. grade, she spun her wheels in an area that is probably ~ 1.15% grade, but didn't stop until she just couldn't do anything when the center of the train hit the flats...

    Failures:
    What failures? A wee 2-6-0 pulled eleven coaches up ~ 1.25% grade!

    PS When pulling out a locomotive that's almost identical to the one for which you DID program a unique address whilst running a loco still addressed to #3, well, make sure its the one you already addressed! Again, multi-tasking is NOT my forte. I was beginning to think the 2-6-0 had un-addressed its self over night; kept wanting to run even though I hadn't set a speed to its alleged address...
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Default A 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward Pulls the California Zephyr...

    Moose had to make many calls, far and wide, to find a replacement locomotive to pull the California Zephyr to Salt Lake...

    1 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward SP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpg And the Southern Pacific RR answered Moose's call...

    2 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward SP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpg Here comes the mighty Cab Forward on her way to rescue the California Zephyr...

    3 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward SP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpg Unfortunately, having no turntable available, the Cab Forward had to back waaay up the steep grade, into the next town (far far away) and back down the grade...

    4 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward SP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpg Once coupled, the California Zephyr was on her way!

    5 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward SP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpg Thankfully, there was a 1940's era railfan taking photos, or we'd never had gotten this shot...

    6 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward SP Pulling Passenger Coaches 090814.jpg Moose inspects the fleet of steam ... The mighty Cab Forward had some issues else where on the mainline, so Moose needed to do some investigations...

    Successes:
    The Intermountain 4-8-8-2 Cab Forward with Sound is awesome, errr, for the most part...

    Challenges:
    The locomotive has a buzz. An annoying buzz. Not sure, but seems like its coming from the decoder. Plus, the tender was quite warm when I was putting it back into its box - the infamous over-heating Tsunami decoder, I presume?

    The locomotive also has a nasty habit of derailing, front and back trucks.

    Factoid:
    This locomotive is one of the reasons I was drawn into seriously building a layout. Around 16 years ago, I had wanted one, but no one made one until just a few years ago ... Visually, my favourite locomotive!
    Last edited by Moose2013; 9th Sep 2014 at 07:15 AM.
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Beautiful Locomotive. Much too large for my layout but I enjoy seeing them anyway.

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    yes Moose those do look quite nice running around like that

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caribou22 View Post
    yes Moose those do look quite nice running around like that
    yea, I'd love one to go with my 5x GS-4's in various schemes...

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    @Caribou22 Sven, Moose laugh heartily at your tag line. Thought you were great in Frozen. Didn't recognize you in it ... Again, my bad...
    Perhaps that's a testament to the film's make-up staff, they're quite good at their craft...
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Default A 2-8-0 Pulls the California Zephyr as 4-6-0 Stands by...

    Moose requested Union Pacific help to get the next California Zephyr running ... Wasn't sure the UP had the necessary power to pull the full train, so Moose also asked Chicago St Paul Minneapolis and Omaha Railway to see if they could free up a helper engine...

    1 2-8-0 Running 090914.jpg UP Power, old school...

    1 4-6-0 Running 090914.jpg CSPM&O Power, old school too...

    2 2-8-0 Running 090914.jpg Moose giving instructions to the UP crew on how to pull the passenger train...

    2 4-6-0 Running 090914.jpg Moose giving instructions to the CSPM&O crew on how to approach the end coach when giving an assist back to town...

    3 4-6-0 Running 090914.jpg CSPM&O crew positioning for the assist of the steepest part of the grade...

    4 4-6-0 Running 090914.jpg Since the CSPM&O locomotive wasn't needed for assisting the Zephyr, Moose had 'er working the yard ... Unglamorous but necessary...

    Successes:
    Excellent slow speed performance from the 4-6-0 and excellent pulling power from the 2-8-0. The 2-8-0 managed to eventually get up the 1.50% grade with eleven coaches, although it spun its wheels for a minute or so while I was trying to take a photo of the helper engine coming in to assist...

    Challenges:
    The 4-6-0 kept pushing the points of an Atlas #5 turnout so that it would head into the A/D yard track, as evidence of the last photo. This happened twice.
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

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    Default D&RGW F-3 Pulling California Zephyr, Again...

    Moose learn that the D&RGW F-3 diesels were coming out of the repair shops, again, so Moose take chance that they'd be able to pull the California Zephyr passenger train clear to Salt Lake City ... Hoofs crossed!

    1 DnRGW Diesel Pulling Passanger Train 091414.jpg Moose take one last inspection of die-sels and gives orders to engineer to take 'er up to 50-65% full power...

    2 DnRGW Diesel Pulling Passanger Train 091414.jpg Moose impressed with flawless travel around mainlines...

    3 DnRGW Diesel Pulling Passanger Train 091414.jpg Engineer takes cross-over to Salt Lake City track...

    Successes: Good operation up to ~ two-thirds power. No derailments. No issues on turnouts.

    Challenges: None on this run.

    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Default WP F-3 Pulling California Zephyr...

    Moose learn that some of the Western Pacific F-3 diesels were just rolling in from delivery by EMD ... Unfortunately, one had broken down on the way ... Typical die-sels...

    Moose take chance that the remaining two could pick-up the California Zephyr passenger train in Salt Lake City and take 'er to San Francisco as the D&RGW diesels were needed elsewhere ... Hoofs crossed once again!

    1 WP Diesels Pulling Cal Zypher 091414 (1).jpg Moose inspects the WP diesels...

    1 WP Diesels Pulling Cal Zypher 091414 (2).jpg Diesels on an inaugural test run...

    1 WP Diesels Pulling Cal Zypher 091414 (3).jpg Moose personally supervises coupling of the engines to the lead coach...

    1 WP Diesels Pulling Cal Zypher 091414 (4).jpg Moose investigates yet another near disaster!

    1 WP Diesels Pulling Cal Zypher 091414 (5).jpg And, once again, Moose has to investigate another issue...

    Successes:
    As had been demonstrated by the D&RGW F-3's, two locomotives can easily pull the eleven coach Zephyr.

    Challenges:
    One of the b-units refused to take orders. Tried to re-programmed it twice with the MRC program track, but to no avail. The decoder must have dis-lodged or something. It has been ~ two years since I installed the decoders. Bound to have one go all wonky!

    Still trying to figure out why the last coach derailed. Had not run the passenger coaches in this direction on the layout. Will investigate further, and probably also install some short vertical walls along the inner edges of this and the other to-be-hidden parts of the layout to insure nothing literally goes over the edge!

    Also, still wondering about why the lead truck of the A-unit didn't play nice with the curved turnout. I tried running 'er through the turnout 3 or 4 times, but it seems that it really wants to push the points straight...

    Last edited by Moose2013; 14th Sep 2014 at 02:23 PM.
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    if you haven't check the wheel gauge, I have one turnout now that still gives me headaches but when I check the gauge it is usually too tight. Seems the manufacturer gets a bit enthusiastic when pressing the wheels on. Just got a new Bmann RS 3 and it had issues and sure enough when I check the wheels they were all too tight. a bit of work and she now takes the turnout (at least so far!). the turnout is coming off a curve and the locos all seem to want to take the divergent route???
    Yours,

    Gene

    Turtle Creek Industrial RR

    Link to my Flickr account: https://www.flickr.com/photos/epumph/

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  34. #18
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    Default CSPM&O 4-6-0 Tries Yard Work...

    Moose ask engineer of CSPM&O 4-6-0 to move freight out of way so a local freight train could get to the main line ... What could possibly go wrong?

    1 CSPM&O 4-6-0 Moving Freight in Yard 091414.jpg Moose only ask one teenie tiny request...

    2 CSPM&O 4-6-0 Moving Freight in Yard 091414.jpg And this happens...

    Successes: What? Are you kidding?!

    Challenges: This is a very very small yard with very small passenger sidings, i.e. train lengths and yard operations will be limited...

    Lesson(s) Learned: Use the much longer A/D track for temporary train re-locations if possible ... Which would have required some additional locomotive moves which is not easy to do ... Remembering loco addresses, changing the addresses on the single DCC controller, and moving switches is hard work for this Moose brain...

    Last edited by Moose2013; 14th Sep 2014 at 01:20 PM. Reason: Add lessons learned
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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  36. #19
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    Get out the rail stretcher.

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  38. #20
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    Moose learn that California Zephyr coaches need to be moved ... Only locomotive available was this ... Oy-vey!

    1 DnRGW RR GE 44-Ton Diesel Switcher Moving Coaches 092414.jpg
    The engineer of the Denver & Rio Grande Western #39 44-ton switcher reports that they're ready to haul passenger coaches!

    2 DnRGW RR GE 44-Ton Diesel Switcher Moving Coaches 092414.jpg
    Every looks good going down hill, although there were some worries as the wee switcher was having some hesitations at some of the initial turnouts at the yard...

    3 DnRGW RR GE 44-Ton Diesel Switcher Stalled w Coaches 092414.jpg
    And here's where everything went all wonky ... Moose was paying attention to the ole' faithful KCS 2-10-2 steam locomotive moving a freight train, and lost track of time. When Moose finally realized that the coaches were well past time to be passing through West Port, Moose find 44-ton switcher is more than a few tonnes short for pulling eleven passenger coaches up a ~ 1.15% grade, particularly when rounding a curve...

    Successes:
    Eh? No derailments...

    Challenges:
    Need to electrify the turnout frogs to help short guys like this...

    Last edited by Moose2013; 25th Sep 2014 at 02:41 PM.
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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