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Thread: Combine ZP Focusing / Stacking

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    Default Combine ZP Focusing / Stacking

    Moose read about photo focusing / stacking so down load Combine ZP ... Moose see what Paul ( @Jack43 ), TD (@TwinDad ) and others have been able to accomplish with this and other software in other threads, so Moose download and try CZP software today.

    Moose have many problems. Moose no understand what is wrong.

    Here is an example:

    Took 24 photos ranging from near / left box car to far / right caboose.

    IMG_9920 CROP SM.jpgIMG_9945 CROP SM.jpg

    First try, used: 1. Align and Balance Frames with all 24 photos at once; then 2. Pyramid Do Stack (produced the least distorted result):

    rectangle_New-Out99999 CROP SM CROP SM.jpg

    Second try, used: 1. Align and Balance Frames with each successive 3 photos at once; 2. Pyramid Do Stack on each result separately; 3. Align and Balance Frames on each result separately; 4. Align and Balance Frames results together; 5. Pyramid Do Stack on all results together:

    rectangle_New-Out99994 CROP 2 SM 2.jpg

    Doing three photos at a time help with the distortion around the area closest areas, but still some distortion (see above tender) locally and areas beyond what are shown here are much worse.

    I've been working on this most of the day...

    Any ideas on how to improve?

    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

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    Hi Moose,
    Hm...Not easy to say where the problem was! Sometimes I also hat distortions but normally only on fine photo details as for example a telephone-pole or on a chimney. Sometime itīs better to shoot more photos, instead of 25 you try 30 or even 34 that could help! And of course between the shots never move the camera/tripod!

    cheers and good luck for the next "Combine Session"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose2013 View Post
    Moose read about photo focusing / stacking so down load Combine ZP ... Moose see what Paul ( @Jack43 ), TD (@TwinDad ) and others have been able to accomplish with this and other software in other threads, so Moose download and try CZP software today.

    Moose have many problems. Moose no understand what is wrong.

    Here is an example:

    Took 24 photos ranging from near / left box car to far / right caboose.

    IMG_9920 CROP SM.jpgIMG_9945 CROP SM.jpg

    First try, used: 1. Align and Balance Frames with all 24 photos at once; then 2. Pyramid Do Stack (produced the least distorted result):

    rectangle_New-Out99999 CROP SM CROP SM.jpg

    Second try, used: 1. Align and Balance Frames with each successive 3 photos at once; 2. Pyramid Do Stack on each result separately; 3. Align and Balance Frames on each result separately; 4. Align and Balance Frames results together; 5. Pyramid Do Stack on all results together:

    rectangle_New-Out99994 CROP 2 SM 2.jpg

    Doing three photos at a time help with the distortion around the area closest areas, but still some distortion (see above tender) locally and areas beyond what are shown here are much worse.

    I've been working on this most of the day...

    Any ideas on how to improve?

    http://www.en.kolobok.us/smiles/arti...e_he-moose.gif

    That last one looks light-years better than any I've been able to do so far.
    ~ Charles

    :shay:

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    Quote Originally Posted by zosimas View Post
    That last one looks light-years better than any I've been able to do so far.
    I agree. I'd be tickled if I could get that last one. Maybe someone way more experienced than I can chime in (I've only ever really messed with stacking once or twice), but it's possible you ALWAYS end up having to tweak things in Photoshop/GIMP afterward.
    Never mistake a guy who talks a lot for a guy who has something to say...

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    Can you post the first 3 original shots of the last stacking, Moose?
    Ganesh

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    Does anyone have comparison shots of the same scene of focus stacking vs stepping back and using a long lens with tight aperture?
    Creating new towns out of thin air.
    My build thread, the Aylesbury Branch

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zombinowski View Post
    Can you post the first 3 original shots of the last stacking, Moose?
    I'm not sure what you are asking for ... These are the first three stacking sets, from the first nine photos:

    1 rectangle_New-Out99999 20 - 22 SM.jpg First 3 photos ... Aligned, Balanced & Pyramid Do Stacked together

    2 rectangle_New-Out99998 23 - 25 SM.jpg Second 3 photos ... Aligned, Balanced & Pyramid Do Stacked together

    3 rectangle_New-Out99997 26 - 28 SM.jpg Third 3 photos ... Aligned, Balanced & Pyramid Do Stacked together

    They still look okay individually, but not so nice when stacked together with the remaining sets (see post above).

    One thing to note is that these photo sets were originally ~ 10,000 mb, then reduced to ~ 400-500 kb shown here.

    Would the pixel size significantly contribute to the degradation and distortion?

    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Moose do more test shots...

    This time the photos were taken further away from the scene. Moose accidentally had the camera on Macro mode. All 11 photos were aligned, balanced & stacked together at the same time. Each photo was originally ~ 4.5 - 5.0 mb each. Enhanced the lighting to a value of 60 on PhotoShop Elements 9. Reduced the photo size to 33%, ~ 640 kb using MSPaint.

    rectangle_New-Out99999 Pyramid Do Stack CROP LIGHTEN SM.jpg

    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

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    Moose reduce each original photo to 33% using MSPaint, then run all 11 photos were aligned, balanced & stacked together at the same time. This time, running All Methods. Each result was reduced to 50% to be able to upload to nSn.

    rectangle_New-Out99994-Pyramid Weighted Average[1,0,1] SM.jpg Pyramid Weighted Average
    rectangle_New-Out99995-_Pyramid Maximum Contrast[1,0,1] SM.jpg Pyramid Maximum Contrast
    rectangle_New-Out99996-Do Weighted Average[1,0,1] SM.jpg Do Weighted Average
    rectangle_New-Out99997-Pyramid Do Stack[1,0,1] SM.jpg Pyramid Do Stack (Always seems to be the best method)
    rectangle_New-Out99998-Do Soft Stack[1,0,1] SM.jpg Do Soft Stack
    rectangle_New-Out99999-Do Stack[1,0,1] SM.jpg Do Stack

    Now, to figure out what the heck this all means and how to improve ... Will be taking photos either from a greater distance away or actually playing with these often spoken of, seldom seen "F-Stops..." Also, will take higher quantity of photos to stack...

    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

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    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

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    Hi Moose,
    I think I know why Zombi wanted to see the first three pics! I had a look at the photos and I think that when shooting you should make smaller steps from one to another photo. The end result instead to have 20 pics itīs better for Combine to have 30 photos. The result will be better.

    Would the pixel size significantly contribute to the degradation and distortion?

    no, that should not happen!

    cheers, Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimil View Post
    Does anyone have comparison shots of the same scene of focus stacking vs stepping back and using a long lens with tight aperture?
    Given Moose is a total dunce when it comes to finding way around a camera, would you elaborate on what you mean by "stepping back and using a long lens with tight aperture?"

    Yes, I have an SLR digital camera, and no, I really don't know what a "tight aperture" means, nor the definition of a long lens or how far back from the scene to step ... Of course, in Moose train room, not much room for stepping back! ... Plus, Moose all hooves...

    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    @Jack43

    Thanks Paul! I will try this the next time...

    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

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    Moose look at the two screenshots! When I do a stacking I use only the two options (red arrows) first I go to the option "stack" and then on "choose frame to use" then I go to "Macro" and I chlick on "do stack" thatīs all you have to do and it will be ok!

    choose all.jpg do stack.jpg

    cheers and good luck for the next "stacking-job" Paul
    Last edited by Jack43; 27th Jan 2015 at 12:50 AM. Reason: correction of text

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    Oh sorry, double posting

    Moose look at the two screenshots! When I do a stacking I use only the two options (red arrows) first I go to the option "stack" and then on "choose frame to use" then I go to "Macro" and I chlick on "do stack" thatīs all you have to do and it will be ok!

    choose all.jpg do stack.jpg

    cheers and good luck for the next "stacking-job" Paul

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    youīr welcome Moose!

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    Yup, first 3 shots to see how much or how less of the objects are in sharp focus.

    I do a simple stacking like Paul above.

    8 images stacked, cropped and size reduction in PS CS5.1



    11 images stacked, cropped and size reduction in PS CS5.1 - one can see artifacts in the bottom of the frame. Left it there to remind me the oddity of the program to mirror the scene at the edges.




    Typically size reduction should not affect the final version. But, I'm not well versed with MSPaint to do that. I use PS CS5.1. In general, dimension reduction algorithms are well advanced, which ever program it is.


    Regarding stepping back and tighter aperture and long lens:
    Long lens = 100mm onwards.
    Since those focal lengths require moving away from the object to get it in focus, "stepping back."
    Tighter aperture = f/22 to f/40 or the smallest aperture (bigger number) one's lens is capable of.

    The concept is, smaller aperture is going to have everything (a few inches in front of the focal point) to the hyperfocal distance (could be a few feet to a few 100 feet to infinity) in sharper focus, precluding the need for stacking.

    Just try a simple stacking, instead of pyramids and squares and Moose's horns won't get tangled in the foliage.
    Ganesh

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    This is a stitch of 11 or 13 photos (shot so long ago), of a beach near my home. A 270° panorama. Shot in Canon 10D, RAW, converted to jpeg using PhaseOne as full sized camera image at 300dpi. Stitched together in PS CS2. The web image is 1000pixels in length. No artifacts at all.

    Ganesh

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose2013 View Post
    Given Moose is a total dunce when it comes to finding way around a camera, would you elaborate on what you mean by "stepping back and using a long lens with tight aperture?"
    There is what I consider to be bad advice that floats around the internet that the default way to take photos of scale models is to use macro mode on your camera. Macro mode in a camera, especially without a specifically engineered macro lens, means a very limited depth of field. Depth of field is simply how much distance from the lens is in focus. When you use macro mode you get only a small range that's in focus and you move that range back and forth by adjusting focus. So, with macro mode you might be able to focus on something 1' away, or something 1' 6" away but you will never have both in focus at the same time. I've seen O scale figures where the photographer couldn't even keep both the face and hands in focus because they believed they needed macro mode to take the shot. With macro mode, you get the ability to focus on things that are very close though, which makes it very useful for getting the camera in tight places and that's where photo stacking comes into play for us. It just shouldn't be our go to because sometimes you can't even keep a whole model in focus.

    What I was referring to with "long lens/tight aperture" was going the very opposite of macro. Step back a way from the layout (5-6'), and zoom in on what you want to photograph. By using a tight aperture (like F/20 or higher) you restrict the camera to only allowing the light through the very center of the lens. This means the light is coming straight in and not being bent by the lens so you get a much deeper field. You can potentially keep everything you can see in focus. The downsides are that the restriction in light means much longer exposures (With my crappy layout lighting, I'm typically getting 10 seconds or more exposure) and that it "flattens" the image. By flattens, I mean it makes the image look compressed front to back... a person standing 100' in front of another may look like they are standing only a few feet in front of them.

    So... I was just curious if anyone had a comparison shot of using the zoom approach vs. photostacking b/c I was wondering about the flattening effect, so wondering if anyone had already done a side by side.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimil View Post
    Does anyone have comparison shots of the same scene of focus stacking vs stepping back and using a long lens with tight aperture?
    Using a longer lens will make the problem worse without stacking because of the shallower depth of field with telephoto lenses. Just keep perfecting the photo stacking procedure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Train Kid View Post
    Using a longer lens will make the problem worse without stacking because of the shallower depth of field with telephoto lenses.
    Unless you offset that by using a small aperture (high F/stop) and stepping back as I mentioned.
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