Welsh dragon rail - north welsh coast layout united kingdom

[Welsh Dragon Rail]

I am providing some photos of my construction technique for the base boards. These are the first built and are at the top of the layout in the Conwy area. Refer to the map at the start of the thread.

The exterior of the fames are made of 70ml by 30 ml kiln dried pine to reduce warping in situ. The two boards shown are 6 feet by 8 feet, providing my 16 feet of width. The internal frame supports are pine house studding material 75nml by 35 ml. These tend to be every 2 feet so I have 2 in these frames. The vertical risers are 12 ml ply which should be strong enough and reduce warping. The higher areas on the right are the right of Conwy and mainly the goods area. The large flat area is the river Conwy
The rises on the left are the other bank of the river.



You can see the join of the 2 base boards. secured with many screws



The river Conwy section





The hidden track area around the top of the layout under development.

[glakedylan]

you certainly are adventurous, and also apt at getting it done
great start!
will be following with lots of interest
photos are super!
sincerely--
Gary

[Welsh Dragon Rail]

Gary,

Thanks for the positive comments. More photos to follow.

[migalyto]

Really like the back drop, your painters did a fine job! You have a nice plan there! keep us posted on the progress.

Thanks,

Mike

[Welsh Dragon Rail]

Further photos of the Conwy area under development at the top of the layout.


The hidden track area around the top of the layout. Each board will carry a pair of tracks. The rising track joins onto the scenic area just beyond Conwy station on the left of the layout looking from the bottom of the layout. This is the only area where I have added a fictional element and comprises a military aviation museum. The pair of tracks going down to go to the left of the layout entering the triple dogbone loop and terminating in the fiddle yard on the left of the layout. The distance across the top of the layout is 16 feet. (plan on page 1)



The far bank of the Conwy river. The other side of the bank is Conwy. The lowest section is part of the Llandudno goods area. All track areas are supported by two layers of 4ml ply crossed over each other to provide stability and reduce the risk of warping.



View across the river Conwy. The foreground is the river bank of Conwy



The Conwy end has been primed. Most of the boards in this photo contains the town of Conwy which is surrounded by a medieval town wall.



All comments are greatly appreciated.

[grrf]

Yeah , Conwy is a pretty place, castle is great,

[Welsh Dragon Rail]

These series of photos show development on the Conwy area, including the southern hill area.


Shows the development of the creek line south of the old section of Conwy and the hill. This hill will be covered with trees.



Both banks of the creek have been placed. Lots more ply wood to come. I am using 4ml ply for the non rail sections of the scenery.




View of the mouth of the creek form the Conwy river side.




I use a paper template system to measure out the complex ply shapes I use to fill in the scenic gaps. I mark the paper around the gap, cut an appropriate pirce of paper and then mark this on the ply to create my piece.



The ruler shows the span of the river Conwy. It is about a 800ml gap. Is a hollow tubular bridge constructed in about 1880

[Welsh Dragon Rail]

More photos of the development of the welsh dragon rail layout.

The first shows the creek just to the south of Conwy and the Castle. The hill below the creek is topped with a forest.




View of the creek back across the area which will comprise the medieval town of Conwy. You can see the hill in the background.



The aluminium L shape pieces which will provide the support for the Conwy tubular bridge. There are 3 bridges across the River Conwy. One is the tubular railway bridge., one a pedestrian suspension bridge comprised mainly of steel wire. I have no idea how I am going to make this bridge. Any ideas would be appreciated. The last is the concrete motor way bridge




Photo of the 3 bridges I will need to model. The first is the rail suspension bridge to the right of the photo. I shall use the L shaped aluminium bar to support this bridge. The second is the bridge on the right of this photo. As you can see it is comprised of steel bars suspended from supports. If anyone has any ideas for the construction of this bridge I am interested in hearing the comments.




The photo below shows the bridge on the left in more detail. All comment on its construction would be appreciated

[Welsh Dragon Rail]

Layout Developments Welsh Dragon Rail

Come on guys I have not had a single response to my query as to the best means of constructing the bridge on the left of the photo below.



The bridge will be about 900ml long. The base will probably be a bar of aluminium. I thought the rails and diamond shape mesh should be a brass etch. The vertical cables will be very thin wire which I can solder to the etched hand rails. It looks as if the vertical cables go through the top supports. I am not sure what to make those long drooping supports at the top of the bridge from. Can any one advise. If possible I should get a material that can be drilled through to poke the vertical supports through. The supports at the very bottom of the bridge will probably be made from thin wood, as I think the cables go all the way through the bottom supports.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

[baronjutter]

Hmm mm that suspension bridge will be quite tricky. Could those arcs be 3d printed somehow?

[Jugtown Modeler]

WOW!!

Ambitious but very COOL project!!

Moving along very nicely. GREAT backdrop painting.

The bridge area is very intriguing. Do you have scale modeling experience? This is a great scratch build subject that would be daunting for many modelers.
I am a big believer in Styrene strips and the suspension "cables" seem to look like scale strips (Evergreen Models) would lend themselves to...

TheConwy Railway Bridge does not look as daunting. Hard to "see" the tubular parts as pictures appear "box-like". Again, since looks are the key, styrene sheet and strips over a solid structure will help create the illusion.

The stone turrets will be "fun" to replicate....

ED: Tubular - I misunderstood reference - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubular_bridge
Cross-section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tubula...on_section.jpg - lots of rivets.....

[grrf]

http://www.engineering-timelines.com...Item.asp?id=60


Some useful info in there.

[OTFan]

Wow, impressive project. I'm no help on how to build that bridge on the left, but that will be a unique and very cool structure once you're finished. Thanks for sharing.

[TheHandler]

I have to say this method of benchwork is rather different, really looking forward to seeing it come together!

[Welsh Dragon Rail]

Layout Developments Welsh Dragon Rail

Thanks to boronjutter, Jugtown, grrf and OTFan for responding with assistance in relation to building the pedestrian bridge above. Just to answer some of the questions. I have been modelling with Napoleonic miniatures for about 45 years but never undertaken any model rail construction prior to the last 2 years. I might down load a few photos of my 15 ml Napoleonic figures at some stage. I think painting figures for the layout will be a simple task for me with this experience.

The engineering site referred to was of great assistance and I shall use the data contained therein. For the pedestrian bridge I wondered if I could get thin metal strips to replicate the hanging supports/suspension cables. If anyone else would care to comment on the construction methods required to build the above pedestrian bridge your comments will be greatly appreciated.


I have enclosed further photos below on developments of the layout.

My technique to save on ply. Templates for the more complex
ply shapes are cut and tested for fit before tracing them onto the ply for final cutting and fitting.



The view from the Conwy station end of the layout . The creek line and hill are south of the medieval town. The Conwy tubular bridge is in the back ground.



The boards in the fore ground on the left are those comprising the Conwy goods area and mainlines through Conwy.



A rake crossing the river Conwy. The lomgest rake will be the twice daily Irish mail. It comprised normally a Royal Scot or Duchess pulling a rake of 17 coaches. I have a time table from 1960 showing the exact rake configuration of every passenger rake running during that period. With a maximum gradient of 1:100 the locos should manage the 17 coach rake.




One of my Royal Scots in front of a rake of 17 coaches.




All comments are greatly appreciated.

[Scotian_Huntress]

Is that code 80 rail?

[Welsh Dragon Rail]

Is that code 80 rail?

Dear Scotian_Huntress,

The track is code 55 Peco flexi track. I am happy to answer all questions posed please feel free to ask.

[Silent1961]

I've been thinking about how I would go about making that pedestrian bridge if it were me. Perhaps you can come away with an idea or two for your use. I have not attempted to calculate exact dimensions from the prototype photos so any sizing quoted is strictly a "guesstimate".

I would start with a brass strip of the appropriate width for the deck and length of the desired span. I would solder 4 pieces of square brass tubing on the bottom along the length of the span to provide support from the deck sagging over time as well as provide a recess for the cross members under the deck. I would leave a 3/16" reveal on both sides. On the edge of the deck I would affix a brass "I" beam, with the deck material inserted into the gap on the inside, using CA adhesive. For the under deck cross braces, I would use brass "C" channel with the ends beveled to 45*. I would then paint this superstructure black before attaching anything else.

For the deck top itself, I would start by placing strip styrene the length of the bridge using CA to shim the final surface even with the top of the "I" beam sides. I would then apply the final deck material using styrene for a flat surface covering the shims and the "I" beam top. I would then paint the deck concrete and do the weathering.

I would then work on the fence separately. I would cut and glue the main railing frame using styrene and plastic cement. Once the framing was completed, I would use steel bug screen at a 45* angle to get the lattice pattern and affix this to the inside of the railing frame using CA. I would then use a slightly larger width styrene strip on the top as a top cap to hide the top edge of the screen material. Your idea of using an etched railing works too, but I prefer using scratch materials. Personal preference really. I would then paint the railing white. After drying, I would sand away the the deck edges down to the styrene wide enough to have a clean surface to glue down the railing. I would use plastic cement for this to bond the two surfaces together.

Now to the cabling where you are looking for ideas. For the vertical cables, I would use .008" Phosphorous Bronze wire. A hole in the bottom cross supports near the edge using a #80 drill bit would allow feed through and can be secured by solder or CA. I recommend using CA to prevent the possibility of warping the styrene from the heat generated by the iron. For the drooping cables, I'm going to steal from another hobby that one of my daughters enjoys. Beads. The larger cables can be done using .025" steel wire and beads where the vertical cable meets the support cable. As beads are normally round, they can be sanded to have a flat bottom and top. They move along the wire until they are in the desired position, then a drop of CA applied at the "high" end so capillary action draws the adhesive into the hole and secures each one in place. A groove can be filed into the front edge for the vertical wire to fit and CA can be used to keep this in place as well. This will maintain the distance between each cable as time passes. For the double top cable, I would use .012" steel wire, and where the verticals meet this cable, a drop of solder would attach the three pieces together and form the appearance of a securing buckle. To maintain the spacing during the soldering, a piece of tape could be used but, far enough away from the joint to prevent it from becoming a permanent part of the wire. A piece of paper towel or other material under the solder area would be recommended to prevent accidental droplets from contacting the finished surface below.

For the beading materials if you were in Canada or the US, I would say Michael's is the best choice. A craft shop in your neck of the woods would be a good source. If they don't carry beading supplies, they could direct you to someone who does. Make sure the beads are plastic though. Metal ones would work but require a lot more effort to shape. And you need a lot of them.

The .025" and .012" wire is just a starting point. You'll need larger wire if you want the cables to have more bulk. Smaller if it looks too big. I know the wife uses .032" wire for her wire wrapping hobby, so larger is available. The hole diameter of the beads will need to be at least the dimension of the wire used.

I'll leave the towers to you. Good luck as this is an ambitious project. It will look great when done and will definitely be unique!

[Welsh Dragon Rail]

Dear Silent,

Thank you very much for your detailed response. I shall try to incorporate all of your ideas in my modelling of the structure. As an alternate the buckle pieces you have suggested I use beads for could be made form 3D printing. They would be very small and I imagine reasonably inexpensive. I could have them made to the exact dimensions of the material being used for the hanging cables. Regardless of this idea your proposals will really help in building what is a difficult structure. Thank you again.

More photos of developments on the layout.

A Royal Scot just having gotten across the river Conwy on the mainline, with a Custard and Cream second brake behind. The hill behind the rake is the hill behind Conwy.




This rake is comprised 12 coaches. The largest rake will be 17.



The scene behind this rake is the far bank of the river Conwy. The town is called Deganwy.




View behind Conwy

[Welsh Dragon Rail]

Dear All,

Thank you to those who have provided comment thus far. They are all valuable contributions.
I shall provide a few more photos of the layout developments. These photos are mainly focussing on how I have ensured an absolutely flat surface between vertical supports.
I have used a laser set up on a flat horizontal surface aimed across each of the vertical supports. The vertical supports are about 2 feet as shown on the track plan on the first page of the thread.
I started with the first vertical support and measured the beam position with respect to the to p of the vertical support. My height for all of the track height above the baseboards in the Conwy area is 19ml. The height of the laser above the top of the vertical support was bout 5 ml on the first board. The laser is set up on the Llandudno goods area.



One vertical support down and about 6 to go. Same procedure on the next board over. Success!!! The laser is on the sane vertical position on the next vertical board.



I continued with this technique for the next 3 boards and all are correct with an adjustment of 1 or 2 mls in a couple of cases. Last one is spot on with a distince of 12 feet from the first to last board, on 2 separate base boards.



A Britainnia with a rake of Blood and Custard coaches travelling on the main Chester Holyhead line in front of the Conwy goods area.