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Thread: Baro's 3x8

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    Default Baro's 3x8

    Well, here's the first version of the plan that's good enough to post. This has been months of iterations but I finally have one I don't totally hate.



    Of course 90% of the time put into this plan was traffic engineering...
    It's just a loop with a few "tunnels" to break up the loopyness of it. A few little industrial sidings. A tram. That's about it!

    I also have a crazy idea to have a subway loop running under the layout peeping out on the side so you can see a subway station.


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    CRITICAL UPDATE!!!!
    Changed this intersection so the east-west running traffic gets left turn lanes both directions.

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    Wonderful! A new beginning!

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    Won't the guts of the working crossing gates get in the way of the subway?

    What do the red paths represent?

    Do you think the tram should have a stop that serves the train station?
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    Looks like a groovy showcase for your fab buildings!

    A few scraps of food for thought:



    Red Circle: You have only 1 crossover between outer & inner/middle loops so you'll have to back a train up at some point.

    Front-Center Industry: recommend an "open" industry: junk yard / pipe supply / team track or a 1-story building to not block sight/access to the 4 tracks behind it.

    Tram Stop (bottom right): can you move the station up a little, and then have the industry pop up to create a viewblock for the tram to disappear "somewhere else" (like you did at the top left.
    BTW: Tam Valley Depot has a great "Train Shuttle" controller to automate the tram.

    My Free-moN friend Rick B has a subway scene on his home layout:



    It's pretty cool.
    On yours, just please make sure all track is easily accessible for easy cleaning!

    Looking forward to seeing the layout & your beautiful buildings come to life!
    (You sure this layout has enough space for the kind of city you want to (over)engineer? )
    Rock/roll on!

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    Awesome! I do agree with the crossover comment, it would be useful to have another one. I also think that the working crossover gate will be on almost all the time depending on how many and how long your trains are. The subway will be a cool idea.
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    Looks good. What about making an interchange out of one of the industries i.e. a universal industry?

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    I like your plan, but I'm not crazy about the industrial area. The railroad probably wouldn't invest that much in track for the four sidings. It would be better to put in one track that runs the length of the industrial area with three to four separate stub sidings feeding off of this track. It will also give you a little breathing room around the buildings for parking lots, road access, etc.

    Hope this helps,
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    Was working on a version of this when the Fabulous Mr. Foxx posted.
    Never underestimate the Dark Side of Darth Lack o' Storage!
    I'd make the first two tracks storage, with the second two the industrial service:



    With the left (closer) long track serving Woods Furniture (allowing the top section to act as a "Farnow" track), and the far right long track serving the large industry in the center (with the section at bottom across the road as shunting/non-service space for that big central industry).

    Personally, I'd probably curve all the tracks to mimic industries wrapping around tracks, as they do here in Oakland, CA.



    The space between can be used for railroad crap.
    Lights, rails, ties, repair stuff, slim office made out of an old boxcar/caboose, etc.

    Whatever design you like, take some time to lay it out and actually push some scale cars around (on the drawing or on the tape to mimic track on a full-size mock-up).
    You'll soon find out in yr mind what operations look good, require X # of cars, etc.

    Still don't think there's enough city space for you, unless you're ok to smoke-mirrors illusions of a larger one.
    Though really you can always clamp on "City Squares" to the layout for photo purposes.
    Just spitballin'.

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    Love the subway idea, and I love Rick B's rendition as well. I think it could be a really neat addition to the layout.

    Chicago is right, though, you'd have to work around the crossing gate mechanism somehow...
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    The subway track doesn't necessarily need to follow the path of the heavy rail. It could curve out of sight before the grade crossing.

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    MC FunkyMonkey's bendy-track suggestion is something that I could get behind, in that it breaks things away from the grid. It's common to find that the city grid does not occur in an orientation orthogonal to the contour lines, so the level route that the railroad would choose to build would be at an angle to the main streets. Since you've got a mainline loop that runs parallel to the layout edge, I would encourage you to establish the city grid at a slight angle to the table. I happen to greatly prefer an angled orientation for urban scenery anyways, because those street lines angling away act compositionally to draw your eye deep into the scene. Streets that are flat to the layout edge, on the other hand, form a more static composition, and the totality of the scene can become a bit "flattened". In other words, you get more sense of scenic depth from the angled config. Your industries in the middle seem to strongly suggest an angled orientation already... so maybe you don't listen to MCF at all, and instead listen to me! Rotate the whole city street plan to align with the industrial yard, and see what happens.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WP&P View Post
    Rotate the whole city street plan to align with the industrial yard, and see what happens.
    I am M.C. FunkeyMonkey, and I approve of this message.

    AND!
    Horizontal, left/right "tilt" all reduce your actual CITY space.

    To increase upper (& lower) CITY space, I'd curve the lower industrial trackage & move it a smidge closer to front.
    Then wrap all your wonderful city scenes / builds around that.
    Will allow for a nice long boulevard along & above the trains for the tram to run.

    If you don't want an actual subway track, you can create subterranean trackage dioramas for the back corners that only show up on the WiFi cameras you install & show up on the iPad display you mount on the layout exterior.
    Otherwise a dedicated subway trackage could impede access from under the layout.
    (And the way you're going, you'll need plenty of access)

    Will spitball until yr covered in 1:160 phlegm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchschuess View Post
    I also think that the working crossover gate will be on almost all the time depending on how many and how long your trains are.
    This is a great "boundary" technique.
    Keep the gate down (you can make it push-button animated if you want), but have cars lined up, & crossing guard light flashing as trains approach, & we know that city is alive & so much exist in the "city" that continues to inside the aisle.

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    So many comments and ideas, read them all, a lot to digest!

    A few quick responses.
    I'm ok with only one cross over on the whole layout. I hate dealing with turnouts so one mission was the minimize the number. I've realized I mostly just like watching trains loop so I'm not too worried about switching realism or anything.

    I'm also ok with the amount of city. The backdrop and background buildings will imply this is just a small corner of a much bigger city. The passenger station isn't even supposed to be the main station, just a smaller local station the commuter trains stop at.

    One goal of the layout is to have very little open space. I want the trains to be sneaking, creeping almost hidden in canyons of buildings. I'd love a little container yard or some sort of "open industry". I'll think about it. The industry in the front would be lower than the one in the back, probably just a big 1 story building.

    I'm very open to a better layout of industry tracks though. The only thing I care about is incorporating my American Hardware and Woods Furniture because I really like those buildings. I'm TRYING not to let me existing stock of buildings hold me hostage or dictate my design. I found a corner for a row of DPM's, but for the whole north side of the layout I want blocks of same-height Prague style buildings. Hope I get access to a laser again...

    I know artistically having the roads at angles might look better, but it means I have to make a lot of angled buildings. The main train loop is in line with the table edge, it's just more space efficient to fit squares in squares. If the borders of my layout are arbitrary, why not have them follow the grid of the city. I've got some angles in there though! I do want to keep the city flat and square though, it's just easier to place buildings that way, and lets me mix and match as time goes on.

    Good ideas with the crossing. I had a feeling there was little point rigging up sensors because on a loop this small they'd be going off 90% of the time. I'll just model them closed and maybe have a button to have them flashing (if I can figure even that out).

    Ok, I'll go try to re-jig the industrial area bit.

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    Ok, I probably did the opposite of lot of the suggestions but uhhh, here's some changes???


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    Oh... Hmmm looks good.... Except that turnout buried in the street... Remember this:
    Quote Originally Posted by baronjutter View Post
    I hate dealing with turnouts so one mission was the minimize the number.
    I think you will have a lot of issues with that one specifically... Unless you know the secret to filling in the holes, that is...
    other than that, looks fine.
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    Why "hide" the tram in a building?
    It would not be uncommon for the transit company to build a multi-floor structure. The most of the ground floor is taken up with a carbarn, the floor could also include two or three small business. Many times a small coffeeshop or restaurant could do very well by servicing the workers of the transit company and patrons waiting for the tram to leave. Other ground floor tenants could be a shoeshop and a clothier, maybe a florist. The second floor offices might include some lawyers and doctors' practices. Kinda a professional minimall. The upper floors would be used by the company for all the mundane management stuff.

    The carbarn idea has another mod you'll have to do. You'll need to design the structure and the tracks to fit multiple trams. With two or more tracks you can run different cars at different times of day or seasons of the year. That building could easily accommodate two LRV or four Brills.

    Because you will operate a bouncy-bouncy run PCCs and Peter Witts will look ridiculous running backwards. You could eliminate this by using one of the of the bi-direction versions of the PCC. The replacement body could be kitbashed or maybe Shapeways has a one.

    I'm not so big on the idea of the container yard. If you want lots of moving cars you could revive one of the old retail distributors like Sears & Roebuck or Montgomery Ward(very important to me). Both had multi-story 1/8 to 1/4 mile long buildings with dozens of tracks inside, not too far off the Loop.

    Lower levels serving as shipping, receiving, warehousing, distribution, even light assembly/manufacturing and printing presses. The upper levels contain the army of people processing the paperwork. These huge buildings received and shipped thousands of tons of stuff every day.

    You could build the track level in a semi open manner so you could see where the trains go. Don't think that these buildings would only get strings of boxcars. The Sears catalogs included almost every item imaginable, raging from pocket watches to entire homes. By the way Sears not only sells tires and batteries but they sold entire autos too.

    Granted most of the HUGE items were no longer sold by the 60s but why quibble on such details.

    Hey doesn't brand.gifneed a local distribution warehouse in your city?
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    tram.jpgtram2.jpg

    Some of you may remember these..my first layout. I did the subway thing- my only advice is to make any turnarounds/hidden trackage ACCESSIBLE! The kato units and bachmann peter witt were so light that I noticed it took much less debris or dirty rail surface to stall these things and you would want to make sure you can easily reach and clean anything you do. I was going to include one in my next layout, but I am debating its overall worth. YMMV. I personally think it is very unique and a great idea. I think my next attempt will be suspended from the bench work, perhaps notching holes in the bench work to make the track accessible from below the fascia... I also had my subway come above ground for one of the turnaround loops, at a 4* grade with no issues... enjoy your traction!
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    Think about making that "unrealistic container zone" a team track for covered pressure discharge hoppers and tank cars. Don't let the track work turn into a monster. I liked the simplicity of the single crossover and the extra switching moves it required. This is going to be a fun one to watch you build.

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