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Thread: MRC Tech II controller mods: Adding panel meters

  1. #21
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    I was able to connect a similar meter directly to the DC output leads and get what seemed to be a decent reading. I actually attached both the power and sensor leads to the DC output but the meter did not start displaying till around 3 or 3.5 volts (per its specifications) so you could connect the power lead to the input DC voltage to read lower voltage on the meter. Seems it would be easiest to connect these directly to the internal solder points that go right out the back of the unit (I am assuming that your units are basically the same as mine since they look really similar) than to try to figure out all the circuit details.

    EDIT: I just recalled that these meters don't work when polarity is switched so you might need to connect the sensor lead before the direction control if you want to get readings in both directions (never as simple as we first think). Not sure if you can use the negative supply lead in both cases (seems the unit just does not work when wired backwards so [should?] not hurt it to experiment).

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    I looked a bit more carefully at the pictures you posted -- looks like the easiest is to connect the sensor portion to the DC output or to the momentum control board / switch where it sends the power out to the output leads. However, if you want to have it work in both directions will need to add a second polarity / direction switch or figure out how to read the state of the 3000's direction switch (I am a total novice on this but I think this might require some digital analysis -- e.g., Arduino -- since you probably cannot use the analog switch a second time after the momentum control; maybe you can do this with the correct wiring w/ diodes or something but that is beyond me but someone posted advice about how this would work).

    EDIT: If you don't need to measure momentum control (i.e., how that is modifying the output voltage) I think you can simply connect your sensor lead directly to the input side of the direction switch (i.e., pre-polarity changes).

    p.s., interesting to note (assuming I am reading the wiring correctly) that the reversing loop does not seem to have momentum on these controllers. Maybe I am wrong on this though...

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  5. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by McNamee View Post
    you might need to connect the sensor lead before the direction control if you want to get readings in both directions
    This would probably work, it would eliminate the 2 diode solution I mentioned for the sense wire.
    It would be the green or white wire between the PCB and direction switch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DrifterNL View Post
    This would / could be the easiest way if you could find one with a 0 center position like this . . .
    Thanks again for everyone's comments! I was able to find two NOS Micro-Mark 20-0-20VDC meters on eBay. Got two for $7 each. However, the larger 12-0-12VDC meters would have much more resolution in the voltages I'm likely operating in. But the Micro-Marks will be a fun experiment. This is the original product description from Micro-Mark's website:



    Finally found some actual product photos:




    I just measured my Tech II, and two of these placed side-by-side would fit very nicely on the top part of the controller. Hopefully, I'll be able to just drill a small hole into the enclosure for the two wires to feed through. Then I can just glue the back of the meters on top of the case for a clean, no-hassle install.
    Last edited by Metrolink; 15th Aug 2016 at 08:43 PM.

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    Hey Metro.....If your not careful your next post is going to say. Well guys I designed my new panel, Here it is!!!


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    Ha-ha! How did you know?!?! That's exactly the look I'm going for!!!!!

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    @Metrolink If you are going to drill into the MRC plastic enclosure don't use a drill bit for metal but for wood.
    The bits do look the same but the drill bit for wood has a small point on the end.
    These bits have a lot less "bite" and create a much nicer hole, the bits for metal will bite more and will tear a hole.
    At least, that's my experience with drilling into plastic.

    http://cdn.instructables.com/FZG/EG7...WVGE.LARGE.jpg

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    After re-reading the "DC is not dead" thread in this same section of the forum, I found this:

    Quote Originally Posted by videobruce View Post
    I tapped off of the input to the reverse relay for the 12volt track power feed for the volt meter. This way, since the meter was not a 12-0-12 volt scale, I didn't have to be concerned about reverse polarity [emphasis added]. Measuring voltage with a DVM (Digital Volt Meter) produces fluctuating, inconsistent readings without a load due to the PWM used. Placing a load on the output solves this [emphasis added]. When using analog panel meters, there is no problem even without a load.
    My thanks to @videobruce for posting this. So, if I understand this correctly, I could in fact use an LED digital voltmeter:

    • Solder the meter's leads prior to the direction switch.
    • Add a load to the meter circuit.
    • Voila!

    Now, how exactly I do that, I'm still not sure. Where do I connect the third wire? How many K-Ohms resistor would I use for the load?
    Last edited by Metrolink; 23rd Aug 2016 at 02:55 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metrolink View Post
    • Solder the meter's leads prior to the direction switch.
    • Add a load to the meter circuit.
    • Voila!

    Now, how exactly I do that, I'm still not sure. Where do I connect the third wire? How many K-Ohms resistor would I use for the load?

    Connect the sense and + of the panel meter together and connect that to the + side of the MRC (wire between the direction switch and PCB).
    Connect the - of the panel meter to the - side of the MRC (other wire between the direction switch and PCB)
    You will need to use a multimeter to check the polarity.
    if necessary the load would be connected between the + and - (start with a 1K resistor or so).
    The only problem with this setup is that the panel meter will only start to work at about the lowest input range (4V or so).

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    Awesome! Thanks a lot @DrifterNL! I think even I can handle that! The second meter I listed has a minimum input voltage of only 2.5VDC:

    Specification:
    Measuring range: DC 0V--32V
    Input range: DC 2.5V-32V(Max Input: DC 32V. The device can be damaged if input is over 32V)
    Red DC2.50-32.0V, Green DC2.70-32.0V, Blue DC3.00-30.0V
    Display: Three 0.36 "digital tube
    Measurement accuracy: 0.1%
    Refresh rate: about 300mS / times
    Input impedance: About 100K
    Operating Current: Red <23mA, Green <18mA, Blue <13mA
    Dimensions:33mm*15mm*10mm
    pitch of holes:28mm
    aperture size :2.8mm
    Operation Temp: -10℃-+65℃
    Display Color: Red, Blue, Green
    Lead Length: 15cm
    Wiring:
    Red power supply +
    Blackpower supply -, measure -
    white: measure +
    Last edited by Metrolink; 23rd Aug 2016 at 02:56 AM.

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  20. #31
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    I’m using a digital volt/amp meter I got from eBay on my test 8. It does not read reverse polarity.
    Got to say I do really like it



    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\james\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

    DC 0-30V 0-10A Dual LED Digital Volt meter Ammeter Voltage + Shunt
    • Please scroll down for product instruction and wiring schematic.
    • How to combine multiorders into one shipment:
    • Step1. pick up the item by clicking "ADD TO CART".
    • Step2. After you get all the items you want to buy into the "SHIPING CART", click "PROCEED TO CHECK OUT" and follow the instruction to complete the order.

    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\james\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image002.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\james\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image003.gif[/IMG]

    • Measurement accuracy: ±0.1%
    • Refresh rate: about 200mS / times
    • Display: Dual four 0.28 "digital tubeblue and red
    • Measuring range: DC 0A-10A.
    • Measuring range: DC 0V-30V.
    • Input range: DC 4V-30V
    • Display Color: Red(Ammeter) + Blue(Voltmeter)
    • Operating current: Less than 10mA
    • Operating temperature: -10°c -65°c
    • Reverse polarity protection: Yes
    • Weight20g
    • Dimensions: 48 x 29 x 22 mm (1 7/8 x 1 5/32 x 7/8 in )

    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\james\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image004.jpg[/IMG]
    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\james\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image005.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\james\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image006.gif[/IMG]

    • LED DC Meter x1
    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\james\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image007.jpg[/IMG]

    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\james\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image008.gif[/IMG]

    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\james\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image009.jpg[/IMG]

    THE CALIBRATION OF AMP- VOLT METER

    • STEP 1.Open the case of the amp -volt meter, you can see a row of small holes on the side of the board, one is marked as “++”, t one is marked as “--“, and the other one is marked as “GND”.

    [IMG]file:///C:\Users\james\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\ clip_image010.jpg[/IMG]

    • STEP 2.Power on the meter.

    • STEP 3.Check the calibration of voltage, use proper tool to short “++” , “--“ and “GND”, the voltage display of the meter will blink which means the meter is in a statue of voltage calibration.

    • FOR 30V RANGE METERS:
    • Apply an accurate 10 V voltage to the thick red wire and black wire, then short “++” and “GND”, the meter will display 10.0U, match the actual voltage, the calibration is completed.

    • FOR 100V AND 200V METERS:
    • the calibration of those meters is divided into two sections, higher section is 60V, lower section is 5V (to keep the linear of the measurement). First, apply an accurate 60V voltage to the thick red wire and black wire, then short “++” and “GND”, the voltage display shows 60.0V, match the actual voltage, calibration is done. Second, apply an accurate 5V voltage to the thick red and black wires, then short “+” and “GND”, the meter will show 5.00U, match the actual voltag , the calibration is completed..( In the factory they have all the special tools, it is easy to carry out the above steps, but for the customer, if they do not have the proper tools it may turn out to be a little bit troublesome)

    • THE ANALYSIS AND RESOLUTION OF VOLTAGE VARIATION:
    • All our meters were calibrated when they come off the assembly line, but because of the voltage step down of the wire in actual usage (especially in those high current situation), the reading may varied from the actual voltage, this variation value can be expressed as U=I*R, here U is the voltage variation, I is the current go through the wire, R is the resistance of the wire, so if the resistance is constant, the higher the current is, the more of the variation in voltage measurement.

    • RESOLUTION:
    • Use a wire as thick as possible, or use wires with lower resistance can reduce the variation.


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  22. #32
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    duplicate post please remove

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    Thanks for posting all of that info, @donzi! What's interesting about your set-up is that your meter's specifications indicate an input voltage of 4-30VDC, but your meter is reading a voltage lower than the stated minimum at 1.80VDC (which is within its indicated "measuring range"). When you crack your throttle, at what voltage does the meter begin to indicate a value? Or, does it only indicate a <4VDC reading after "coming down" from reading a previously within-range (e.g., +4VDC or greater) reading? Maybe someday I'll figure out who to connect that up!
    Last edited by Metrolink; 23rd Aug 2016 at 02:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Metrolink View Post
    Thanks for posting all of that info, donzi! What's interesting about your set-up is that your meter's specifications indicate an input voltage of 4-30VDC, but your meter is reading a voltage lower than the stated minimum at 1.80VDC (which is within its indicated "measuring range"). When you crack your throttle, at what voltage does the meter begin to indicate a value? Or, does it only indicate a <4VDC reading after "coming down" from reading a previously within-range (e.g., +4VDC or greater) reading? Maybe someday I'll figure out who to connect that up!
    That is why the meters have 3 wires. The power wire can connect to 12v or more DC while the sensor wire should connect to whatever you want to get a reading from. This allows the meter to always get sufficient power to run and give you accurate measurement of volts lower than the few volts which is the minimum for the meter to run.

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    @Metrolink - one thing to note. If you connect prior to direction switch you will not take into account the momentum on your 3000. You could connect after the momentum board and include a second polarity / direction switch to get a reading in both directions (or you can use the 2 diode solution that DrifterNL suggested). Depending on how often you are using momentum I think you might want to see the momentum build up (and slow down) on the voltmeter (not just the target voltage that the controller dial was set to).

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  28. #36
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    The input voltage you reference (DC 4-30v) is for the independent power supply source, (which does not come with the meter), not from the track.

    For this power supply, I am using a Wall Wart class 2 transformer rated at 12vdc 200mA output.
    Don’t remember what the wall wart was from, I have a stash of about a dozen wall warts in a shoe box that I’ve kept for eventual use on the pike.
    I had to cut the end pin connector off of it and I used wire nuts for all the connections.

    When you crack your throttle, at what voltage does the meter begin to indicate a value? Or, does it only indicate a <4VDC reading after "coming down" from reading a previously within-range (e.g., +4VDC or greater) reading? Maybe someday I'll figure out who to connect that up!
    When I just crack the throttle, the meter begins to read at 0.01v it provides an accurate reading throughout the scale.


    Bought these in 2015 from eBay seller nyplatform, he still carries them.
    I bought 2.

    Here you can see all the data that didn’t show in my first reply.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-0-30V-0-10A-Red-Blue-Dual-LED-Digital-Voltmeter-Ammeter-Voltage-/321772149729



    BTW that MRC Tech 4 260 is putting out 12v at 60% throttle.

    I make notes on all my lokies as to have a benchmark for troubleshooting when one is not performing right.
    Last edited by donzi; 19th Aug 2016 at 02:03 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donzi View Post
    When I just crack the throttle, the meter begins to read at 0.01v it provides an accurate reading throughout the scale
    Awesome! Thanks for all your help!

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    Quote Originally Posted by McNamee View Post
    Depending on how often you are using momentum I think you might want to see the momentum build up (and slow down) on the voltmeter (not just the target voltage that the controller dial was set to).
    Good call! Yes, that would be ideal, since I use the momentum switch nearly all the time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by donzi View Post
    BTW that MRC Tech 4 260 is putting out 12v at 60% throttle.
    That's interesting that you didn't have to wire in a load for that to work, since I assume the Tech 4 is using PWM (MRC's Tech 4 260 manual does indicate that this model incorporates MRC's "AccuTec" technology, which I believe is their improved PWM circuit). Did you simply connect your meter to the track-power leads on your Tech 4? When you reverse the direction (polarity), what does the meter read?

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    Unit (meter) comes with two harnesses, (one thick wires, one thin wires) one for the independent power supply (thin Red/Black), the second for the meter (thick Red/Black/Yellow.
    Both harnesses plug into back of meter.
    Red from MRC to thick red on meter harness, where these two are connected (wire nut) there also is the red to right hand rail feeder. Those three wires are connected to each other in that one wire nut.
    Black from MRC to thick black on meter harness (to meter). (Wire nut connection)
    Thick yellow from meter harness to black for left hand feeder rail. (Wire nut connection)
    The thin wire harness plugs into back of meter, Red to Polarity + from wall wart, Black to – polarity of wall wart. Again both connections use their own wire nuts.
    Look again at the eBay link I posted in reply #36 scroll down in link to see wiring schematic.
    Mine is wired exactly like that.
    Meter reads gradual increase and decrease when using momentum.
    When polarity is reversed (direction switch on MRC), meter stays lighted but both ammeter and voltmeter read 0.00 they do not read negative current and voltage.

    12v at 60% throttle is measured with load (lokie running on track).

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