Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 22

Thread: the Milwaukee Road

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    63
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 69 Times in 19 Posts
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default the Milwaukee Road

    I noticed that there is not a Fallen flag section for the Mil road........just wanted to start one up. If this is the wrong place or duplicate please delete or move or whatever. Thank you.

    "pride comes before the fall"

    https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCudDXNfrj8TWI5Oe-DVWTtw
    my railfanning videos

  2. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Wisc.Odie For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Posts
    939
    Thanks
    180
    Thanked 638 Times in 397 Posts
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't think I have ever seen a route map of the CMStP&P. I guess the extent of the "&P" portion came as something of a surprise.

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    834
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 355 Times in 225 Posts
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Hopefully you'll get a few people to join in..........I model the Milwaukee Road.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to MRLdave For This Useful Post:


  6. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Wisconsin
    Posts
    63
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks
    30
    Thanked 69 Times in 19 Posts
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    MILW_Map_Updated.png

    Found this On wikipedia Looks like Thick red lines are still operated by cp rail today. Purple lines are line ran by other railroads and red dash line are abandoned lines.

    I am just starting out learning but I see a a lot of abandon track near the rockies. Just thinking that must be the hardest and most expense to lay down why wouldn't another company be using those lines in the mountains? I did see that The management of the road stop maintenance on some of the western lines. So I am thinking they were ran down track that cost to much to fix?



    Also for nembies to the road like me here are some sites for the road.




    https://www.mrha.com/


    https://www.facebook.com/groups/43389115171/
    "pride comes before the fall"

    https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCudDXNfrj8TWI5Oe-DVWTtw
    my railfanning videos

  7. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fort Smith, Arkansas
    Posts
    1,387
    Thanks
    1,212
    Thanked 1,820 Times in 619 Posts
    Mentioned
    23 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The MR is one of the more popular roads among collectors. Odd that there was not a page already. I don't the answer to your abandoned lines but it would be reasonable to think that the industries dried up.
    Daniel Dawson

  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    898
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    461
    Thanked 740 Times in 278 Posts
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisc.Odie View Post
    I am just starting out learning but I see a a lot of abandon track near the rockies. Just thinking that must be the hardest and most expense to lay down why wouldn't another company be using those lines in the mountains? I did see that The management of the road stop maintenance on some of the western lines. So I am thinking they were ran down track that cost to much to fix?
    I'm no MILW expert, but the Pacific Extension was definitely an odd thing. They were the last line to the coast, but they had the best grades and the shortest route. It also passed through the middle of nowhere and had next to no traffic enroute! Like the GN, they electrified much of it, although there was a gap between the mountains and the coast. The extension bankrupted them.

    After rebooting the company, it ticked along until the 70s, when they de-electrified the line because of copper scrap prices. This is held by many as a stupid choice. It's often thought that management imploded the railroad on purpose for financial gain by doing such things as deferring maintenance, turning away traffic, and not trimming costs that should have been. They were also exaggerating the costs of the Pacific line by some ridiculous amount.

    In the end, I think it was traffic that did it. BN had the GN and NP routes to Seattle, as well as the SP&S down the Columbia. In the end, there wasn't traffic enough for another route over the mountains - They're not just expensive to build, they're expensive to maintain and expensive to run. BN even deactivated the NP route into Seattle, Stampede Pass, although they've got it running again now despite limited clearances.

    There's probably a lot you can find that's very interesting if you google the subject.
    N scale CPR Kootenay Division, started May 2011!
    Youtube channel: (MRR, Vlogs, Railway vids!) http://www.youtube.com/user/KootenayDivision
    Blog about the railway and methods used: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/ (Updated October 14th)
    Oh, and I take photos, too! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296

  9. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to trainboyh16-44 For This Useful Post:


  10. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    33
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 66 Times in 20 Posts
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wisc.Odie View Post

    I am just starting out learning but I see a a lot of abandon track near the rockies. Just thinking that must be the hardest and most expense to lay down why wouldn't another company be using those lines in the mountains? I did see that The management of the road stop maintenance on some of the western lines. So I am thinking they were ran down track that cost to much to fix?
    The Washington segment over Snoqualmie Pass was actually owned and almost reopened by Burlington Northern in the 90's. But instead they chose the slightly less expensive but much more limited Stampede route for whatever reason. It's a shame as I live minutes from the old grade and it would have been spectacular to railfan.

    If you're interested in researching through documents there is a wealth of information here.
    http://www.milwaukeeroadarchives.com/

  11. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Sequim WA
    Posts
    3,598
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    12,162
    Thanked 5,711 Times in 2,196 Posts
    Mentioned
    147 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyS View Post
    The Washington segment over Snoqualmie Pass was actually owned and almost reopened by Burlington Northern in the 90's.
    Actually, I think BN had donated the old Milwaukee grade to the state for a park by the 1990s.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyS View Post
    It's a shame as I live minutes from the old grade and it would have been spectacular to railfan.
    You can say that again!

    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyS View Post
    But instead they chose the slightly less expensive but much more limited Stampede route for whatever reason.
    No sure what is meant by "chose the slightly less expensive" Stampede route. Millions upon millions were spent to upgrade Stampede, and millions more have been spent to maintain it. In fact, the steel gangs will be up there this month to put in more continuous welded rail.

    The route over Snoqualmie Pass has the advantages of lower average gradient, but also has several large steel viaducts which are expensive to maintain. The Stampede Pass route, although the gradient is steeper, has one large steel viaduct east of Lester.

    Snoqualmie would have been a better choice to keep, as its tunnel can accommodate auto racks, whereas Stampede's cannot. But, as I mentioned, that horse was already out of the barn by the time BNSF decided to refurbish and reopen Stampede 20 years ago.
    Paul Schmidt

    Shasta (2008-2020) -- All good dogs should live forever

    Southern Railway's Slate Fork Branch

    Check out Appalachian Railroad Modeling!

  12. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2016
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    33
    Thanks
    68
    Thanked 66 Times in 20 Posts
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Schmidt View Post
    Actually, I think BN had donated the old Milwaukee grade to the state for a park by the 1990s.
    I should have double checked before posting, they pulled the rails in 1988. However before the rails were pulled the state of Washinton supposedly offered to pay for a connection between the Snoqualmie and Stamped routes that would bypass Renton and the I-405 widening project.
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Schmidt View Post
    No sure what is meant by "chose the slightly less expensive" Stampede route. Millions upon millions were spent to upgrade Stampede, and millions more have been spent to maintain it. In fact, the steel gangs will be up there this month to put in more continuous welded rail.
    I was referring to the costs of rehabilitating Snoqualmie before the tracks were pulled compared to the what it cost to upgrade Stampede. Snoqualmie was in worse shape during it's last days operating than Stampede was at the time of upgrade. Of course it would have cost even more once they pulled the rails up.

  13. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Chilliwack, BC
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 593 Times in 188 Posts
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't want to argue about what actually happened, because I've talked with people who were actually there, and I feel fairly confident i know the actual reality, but I love to pretend the Milwaukee Road still existed... I have a few modern, high-horsepower locos in the standard orange and black freight scheme, and I'd love to model so fantasy 'what if' electrics as if the electrification was still around today.
    Director of Operations of the Kettle River Railway

    See photos of the original owner's layout here:
    https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/about-...7603977732928/

    It sounded like a good idea at the time... too bad the caboose wasn't in on the plan.

  14. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Glendive, Montana
    Posts
    1,537
    Thanks
    6,961
    Thanked 3,998 Times in 1,081 Posts
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    PIC_0157 (1).jpgThis is the Milw bridge just west of Terry, MT. It is currently used as a county road, but this is not for small cars! After the rails and tie plates were pulled, the county simply laid long strips of expanded metal where those were. So you get to feel every tie joint and every patch and bumpity bump along at a slow crawl. It is definitely fun!!!
    Northern Pacific and Black Hills RR in N, of course!!
    Aian, CEO, COO, Engineer, Gopher and everything else!

  15. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to badlandnp For This Useful Post:


  16. #12
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    2,082
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks
    788
    Thanked 2,385 Times in 797 Posts
    Mentioned
    73 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Just got back from a trip to Montana and witnessed the bones of the old Milw. main along US 12 between Roundup and Forsythe, and also chunks between Lewiston and Great Falls. Really sad to see. A lot of infrastructure is still in place. In places, there's still rail between Great Falls and Lewiston. Lots of glass insulators and power poles still. Many ghost towns that were born with the line and died with it.

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Glendive, Montana
    Posts
    1,537
    Thanks
    6,961
    Thanked 3,998 Times in 1,081 Posts
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    That is always a sad drive seeing all that was........
    Northern Pacific and Black Hills RR in N, of course!!
    Aian, CEO, COO, Engineer, Gopher and everything else!

  18. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Kansas City, MO
    Posts
    362
    Thanks
    111
    Thanked 151 Times in 113 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    A time in America that's lost forever.

  19. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Slinger WI
    Posts
    1,526
    Thanks
    1,739
    Thanked 1,959 Times in 721 Posts
    Mentioned
    30 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Digging thru my fanning pics found this
    Still wearing the black & orange WSOR #1502


  20. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Tony35 For This Useful Post:


  21. #16
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    2,082
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks
    788
    Thanked 2,385 Times in 797 Posts
    Mentioned
    73 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I don't want to argue about what actually happened, because I've talked with people who were actually there, and I feel fairly confident i know the actual reality,


    Sounds like a good story...care to share it?

    I would second the notion that Milw's road west may not have had much for revenue on it in the middle parts...at least not in Eastern Montana along 12...there's not a thing there. At absolute peak best, there would have been a little cattle business and some feed mill business...

  22. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Chilliwack, BC
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 593 Times in 188 Posts
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    ............
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Director of Operations of the Kettle River Railway

    See photos of the original owner's layout here:
    https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/about-...7603977732928/

    It sounded like a good idea at the time... too bad the caboose wasn't in on the plan.

  23. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Mill-Bay For This Useful Post:


  24. #18
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Posts
    3,056
    Thanks
    1,363
    Thanked 4,507 Times in 1,417 Posts
    Mentioned
    61 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    I'll clarify one item on the MILW system map. The MILW never had its own rail from Saint Paul to Duluth, MN. They paid for trackage rights over the NP Skally Line. It would have been fun to see them run that route in the day.
    Karl

    CEO of the Skally Line, an Eastern MN Shortline

  25. #19
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    2,082
    Blog Entries
    2
    Thanks
    788
    Thanked 2,385 Times in 797 Posts
    Mentioned
    73 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    Default

    Holy crap. Reading this, one gets the feeling that what management did to the MILW in the 1970s was downright criminal, and with evil intent.

    http://www.trainweb.org/milwaukee/article.html

  26. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Chilliwack, BC
    Posts
    686
    Thanks
    1,074
    Thanked 593 Times in 188 Posts
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by P-LineSoo View Post
    Holy crap. Reading this, one gets the feeling that what management did to the MILW in the 1970s was downright criminal, and with evil intent.

    http://www.trainweb.org/milwaukee/article.html
    Pretty much. To go from the the largest revenue increase of any railroad in the country in the country in 1972 down to nothing less than a decade later.
    Director of Operations of the Kettle River Railway

    See photos of the original owner's layout here:
    https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/about-...7603977732928/

    It sounded like a good idea at the time... too bad the caboose wasn't in on the plan.

Similar Threads

  1. The Milwaukee Road Remembered
    By spiralcity in forum General Rail Discussion
    Replies: 60
    Last Post: 28th Mar 2016, 10:11 PM
  2. Milwaukee Road 36A
    By aroc in forum General Research
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 8th Jan 2011, 09:54 PM
  3. Milwaukee Road
    By DaveR1 in forum General Research
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 14th May 2010, 12:54 PM
  4. Milwaukee Road decals?
    By MRLdave in forum Steam
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 29th Mar 2010, 10:18 PM
  5. Milwaukee Road and other RR
    By railohio in forum General Research
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 6th Jan 2009, 02:18 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •