Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Something I did not know...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    1,310
    Thanks
    3,446
    Thanked 1,172 Times in 704 Posts
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Something I did not know...

    Interesting discussion of early composite rail wheels
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paper_car_wheel

    What other things have you discovered?

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Scotian_Huntress For This Useful Post:


  3. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fort Smith, Arkansas
    Posts
    1,344
    Thanks
    1,168
    Thanked 1,736 Times in 594 Posts
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I wonder if the wheels were actually a problem or if they received unjust blame. Also, could the principle be used today, but I guess with passenger service mostly dead it wouldn't matter too much.
    Daniel Dawson

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO, US of A
    Posts
    1,793
    Thanks
    3,822
    Thanked 2,574 Times in 1,048 Posts
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile One View Post
    with passenger service mostly dead it wouldn't matter too much.
    Only in the US. For the most part the rest of the world has very active passenger service. (Admitting I don't know about the extent or quality of passenger service in Canada)
    Cheers!
    Gordon
    Rheinland Bayern Bahn
    http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthr...4-x-9-5-layout

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Zombietopia, Washington
    Posts
    5,246
    Thanks
    18,237
    Thanked 12,231 Times in 3,501 Posts
    Mentioned
    355 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Moose no know if any kind of composite -- wood, fiberglass, graphite-based material -- would be feasible, unless you could completely eliminate the possibility of water ingression. The composite matrix no likey moisture, not to mention that it would also be affected by varying temperatures. You'd have the metal containment details expanding / contracting at different rates than the composite, and then you'd also have to consider, ohhh, never mind ... Moose put away the slide rule & geeky glasses and go sit in the corner...
    Last edited by Moose2013; 10th Feb 2019 at 11:41 PM.
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fort Smith, Arkansas
    Posts
    1,344
    Thanks
    1,168
    Thanked 1,736 Times in 594 Posts
    Mentioned
    21 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose2013 View Post
    slide rule & geeky glasses and go sit in the corner...
    I was rather intrigued by it.
    Daniel Dawson

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Mobile One For This Useful Post:


  8. #6
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Cincy-whatzit, Ohio
    Posts
    6,778
    Blog Entries
    3
    Thanks
    9,158
    Thanked 8,287 Times in 3,656 Posts
    Mentioned
    209 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    When I first read the description the picture that formed in my mind was one of a metal tire that was separated from a metal hub by a thin paper/composite ring. Instead, it was this big disk, which as the Moose was saying, would be prone to differential movement due to thermal and moisture factors. But would there be any benefit to be realized from my first thought, i.e. a shock-absorbing "soft" layer that just insulates the tire from the hub? One advantage might be that the material separation would mean that the tire could be replaced without needing to change out the whole axle.

    Get yourself a Rail Pass for free travel on the WP&P: wpandp.com
    Could Star Wars: The Last Jedi have been a smarter movie with just one tweak? wpandp.com/how-an-interdictor-could-have-fixed-the-last-jedi/

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Delray Beach, Florida, USA - Ex Busselton, Western Australia
    Posts
    6,965
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    1,852
    Thanked 3,488 Times in 1,210 Posts
    Mentioned
    135 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Modern helicopter gearboxes have composite gears.
    A metal ring with the teeth and a metal boss, seperated by composite web/disk.
    Bryan
    “Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” ~ Leonardo da Vinci (1452–1519)

  10. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    612
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 584 Times in 296 Posts
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    this paper wheel discussion start point can end up in a lot of places rail and passenger related.

    Examples being creature comfort, safety, distance travel, transport tax/subsities, and maintenance for any of that.

    recall reading bout the paper wheels in an MR as a modeling idea. and yeah there was some
    written about why the experiment expired.

    I think whoever decided that heavyweights with concrete floors could yield a smooth ride may have been onto a
    reasonable solution to the problem. More recent engineering might have decided smaller and lighter wheels
    was the solution to try. With perhaps shock absorbers and compliant springing added to the mix.

    For any of that engineering work to get done in the usa, this would require our government to at least
    relieve the railroad from some passenger related burdens as well get people out of airplanes for at least the shorter
    trips so common on at least the east coast (I do not know about just west coast travel demands)

    I happened to like the look of paper wheels

    low profile racing tires eat your heart out!

    victor

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Zombietopia, Washington
    Posts
    5,246
    Thanks
    18,237
    Thanked 12,231 Times in 3,501 Posts
    Mentioned
    355 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Here's an interesting article regarding Bryan's noted gear application. Far more advanced materiaks than the railway wheel discussed in the wiki...
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

  12. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    southeast michigan
    Posts
    1,071
    Thanks
    503
    Thanked 1,247 Times in 495 Posts
    Mentioned
    37 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose2013 View Post
    not to mention that it would also be affected by varying temperatures.
    Sounds right. But then again t
    hey made wagon wheels for centuries by heating a metal ring (the rim) to get it to expand, then encasing a waiting wood wheel with it. Upon cooling the rim contracted, tying it to the wheel and strengthening the wheel.

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Columbus,OH, USA
    Posts
    3,262
    Thanks
    79
    Thanked 1,575 Times in 915 Posts
    Mentioned
    45 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NtheBasement View Post
    Sounds right. But then again t
    hey made wagon wheels for centuries by heating a metal ring (the rim) to get it to expand, then encasing a waiting wood wheel with it. Upon cooling the rim contracted, tying it to the wheel and strengthening the wheel.
    Steam locomotives also had these. in many cases, the center of the wheel was cast iron with a steel tire (yes, that is what it was called).

    Here is a steamtown video showing how to remove one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im7FcwpbO1A

    and from another tourist line...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1EpBFebrfo


    Paul
    For decoder installation and JMRI services, please visit http://www.bentraildigital.com
    For n-scale intermodal information, please visit http://nscaleintermodal.com

  14. #12
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    1,606
    Thanks
    780
    Thanked 2,461 Times in 713 Posts
    Mentioned
    68 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The subways in Mexico City run on rubber tires...

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-tyred_metro

    Apparently some other metros do as well but I noticed it first in Mexico City...

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    612
    Thanks
    80
    Thanked 584 Times in 296 Posts
    Mentioned
    18 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    they would do well to put the rubber inside the steel tires... most of the benefits and far fewer problems.

    think rubber in place of paper.

    victor

  16. #14
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Southern Colorado
    Posts
    3,024
    Blog Entries
    8
    Thanks
    1,267
    Thanked 1,904 Times in 901 Posts
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pbender View Post
    Steam locomotives also had these. in many cases, the center of the wheel was cast iron with a steel tire (yes, that is what it was called).

    Here is a steamtown video showing how to remove one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Im7FcwpbO1A

    and from another tourist line...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1EpBFebrfo


    Paul
    Here's how we do it in Durango.

    https://www.nscale.net/forums/album.php?albumid=1546&attachmentid=97620

    Old locomotive tires also make dandy flower beds in the front yard.

    As for composite wheels, I remember seeing a National Geographic show about the high speed train accident in Germany (Can't believe that was TWENTY YEARS ago! Wow, time flies...) caused by a crack in the steel tire of a composite wheel. The steel tire peeled off the wheel like a potato peel and shot through the floor of the train. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschede_derailment#Wheel_fracture

    And here's that show i saw: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fMWlSjeMnM


    Mac mentioned the subway with pneumatic tires... Budd experimented with those back in the 30's on the Texas Pacific's streamliner (Also the first streamlined passenger train in the US, predating the Zephyrs), but they were found to be unsuccessful: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd%E...ired_rail_cars
    "Do Not Hump!?!?! Does that mean what I think it means?!?"--Michelle Blanchard

    "People saw wood and say nothing, but railroad men saw trains and say things that are better left unprinted."--Charles De Lano Hine

    Down with UP

  17. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    1,310
    Thanks
    3,446
    Thanked 1,172 Times in 704 Posts
    Mentioned
    40 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The Montreal Metro, second largest ridership per capita in North America after New York, runs on rubber tyres
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montre...#Rolling_stock

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •