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Thread: Reverse Loop problem

  1. #21
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    Tim... my DCC buss is run around the layout. It comes out of where I plug in my NCE Powercab and runs around the left side of the layout, around the future reverse loop along the side where I have the double crossover along the right side where the helix/reverse loops is and comes back and stops just inches from where it started. So to rephrase my question: To power up the AR1 can I tap into my main buss from anywhere or does it have to be from outside the reverse loop buss wire? This is what I'm trying to get clarification on.

    On the upper level it would be a simple single reverse loop something like the attached pic. Of course it would have a few sidings to be able to switch on. But overall just an out & back reverse loop so I can change direction so I don't have to back down the loop to get back to the bottom again. Since this would be part of the AR1 reverse loop from the level below it might be easier to just leave the loop out and make it out and back switching level.
    I don't see me working on that until next fall anyways so I have plenty of time to figure it out but just thought I would throw the wiring question your way to get a feel for how complicated it would be.

    Again thanks for all your help.
    Attached Images Attached Images

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim R View Post
    With the solution I suggested, when the crossover is taken, the reversing section is the entire loop, not just the crossover track. The wheels hit the gap on the crossover, cause a short circuit, and change the polarity of the whole loop (including the helix and staging yard on the right).
    Yeah, the thing that makes me concerned is "the staging yard on the right". Someone railing a locomotive might cause an accidental short, which will cause a polarity flip. That's not ideal. Of course the yard and Helix could be further separated as an additional block, in fact I would highly recommend it.

    I know it's not always possible, but I try really hard to never have a switch in a reversing segment. Arcing at the points, derailments, and wide-tread wheels bridging the gap are all shorts that throw an auto-reverser and are better protected by a circuit breaker. While my suggestion doesn't follow that rule, I feel like the pair of switches that are being used to create the reverse loop are much less likely to cause trouble than many feet of additional track including a staging yard.

    I'm not as against auto-reversers as to want to go DPDT, but I have observed that simpler track work makes the auto-reversers much more reliable.
    --
    Leo Bicknell

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    Quote Originally Posted by bicknell View Post
    I'm not as against auto-reversers as to want to go DPDT, but I have observed that simpler track work makes the auto-reversers much more reliable.
    Leo, on that we absolutely agree. If you just need a reversing section for turning things around, and simple loop with one turnout or the stub tail track of a wye is the way to go. My overly complicated example is based on my prototype's track arrangement, and they don't have to worry about such things.
    Tim Rumph
    Modeling the Southern Railway in N-Scale

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    OK, I know that I am a bit late to the party here...

    And, everyone's advice has been great.
    But, I tend to go with the K.I.S.S. method.

    Personally, in your situation, I would use the AR1 but in this configuration.... Limiting the amount of problems.

    NYC54 AR1 track Post.jpg

    Just an option for ya.
    ************************************
    OK, I'll admit it, I suffer from ADOSS.
    {Attention Defic... Oooo, Something Shiny!}
    Safety First, Safety Always.
    ​DG&H MRRinN

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    DG&H... the party is still going on and thanks for your input and I like your plan. I'm still open to any and all suggestions at this stage. I currently have it wired up the way TimR suggested and everything works fine. I got a chance to work on it some today and did some tidying up of the wiring and swapped out those ugly yellow plastic insulators for the clear ones from PECO. Ran a couple of different engines and everything was A-OK.

    However I decided to make up a 2 loco consist (2 loco's only no cars) and holy cow my AR1 sounds like a kid with a baseball card in his bicycle spokes. The relay just chatters. The engines still ran but I stopped because I was scared of damaging the AR1.
    The consist I made had 1 engine going forward and the other in reverse. So I thought that was the problem. I deleted that consist and swapped one of the engines around so they were both running in the same direction
    made a new consist and I still got all that relay chatter from the AR1.

    Anybody have any ideas on what is wrong. I do have a 2nd AR1 to swap out but ran out of time today to do the swap.

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    Hey guys... I figured this chattering out. I forgot about the adjustment screw. It was set at the lowest setting so I cranked it up a bit and problem solved.

    Thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by NYC54 View Post
    DG&H... the party is still going on and thanks for your input and I like your plan. I'm still open to any and all suggestions at this stage. I currently have it wired up the way TimR suggested and everything works fine. I got a chance to work on it some today and did some tidying up of the wiring and swapped out those ugly yellow plastic insulators for the clear ones from PECO. Ran a couple of different engines and everything was A-OK.

    However I decided to make up a 2 loco consist (2 loco's only no cars) and holy cow my AR1 sounds like a kid with a baseball card in his bicycle spokes. The relay just chatters. The engines still ran but I stopped because I was scared of damaging the AR1.
    The consist I made had 1 engine going forward and the other in reverse. So I thought that was the problem. I deleted that consist and swapped one of the engines around so they were both running in the same direction
    made a new consist and I still got all that relay chatter from the AR1.

    Anybody have any ideas on what is wrong. I do have a 2nd AR1 to swap out but ran out of time today to do the swap.
    Take a look at the Trip Current Adjustment. Sounds like it might be set too low. See the instructions to adjust on the right of the link.

    http://www.digitrax.com/media/apps/p...uments/AR1.pdf

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    I just bought my first AR1 and tried it out with a very basic loop, as shown on the AR1 instruction sheet. Two sets of insulators to completely isolate the loop, etc....
    Try as hard as I might, the locomotive stalls & shorts at the insulated joint on way out of the loop. I reversed the wiring but that just shifted the short to the other insulated joint. Once I push the locomotive further ahead, it goes on it's way.


    Adjusted the sensitivity, tried all that I could think of but cannot get it to work. Any suggestions, please?

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    I just seen the comments on reversing loop with in a reversing loop with automatic reversers.
    Yes you can. as I have them set up on my layout.
    Long as you leave say 6 inch section between the autorevers that are gaped on both rails each end. this section gets connected straight to the bus
    This allows time for the two autorevers to switch over with
    Out creating a short
    Andrew

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    Just to cover all bases, is your staging yard built and by chance does it have double-ended sidings? If so make sure there are gaps to handle the case where the switches at each end of the double ends aren't thrown the same way.

    If you have a voltmeter, check the resistance across each gap. You will need to disconnect you track power and possibly the AR unit to avoid measuring resistance back thru the circuitry instead of across the gaps.

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    Have gapped the reversing loop it has a loco depo in the middle of reversing loop. if you come half way around the reverse loop there is a crossing that connects on to the main line so do not need to come in the reverse loop in one location. The thing
    I have to watch is loco consist more than three or carriage
    Lights. This is when I run into problems. Not a short but stop temp. I end this bit. It is the autorevers having a think
    What way to go using tam Valley autoreversers mode
    If one loco no lightning runs fine
    If you connect a circuit braker in you have
    Problems with tripping out or the current settings
    Hope Iam correct it what I mentioned
    Andrew
    Last edited by 4527pink; 19th Mar 2020 at 05:48 AM.

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