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Thread: Layout 14425 Official Build Thread

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    Default Layout 14425 Official Build Thread

    Attached is a copy of my track plan. A few more details (sidings, industries, etc.) still need to be added, arranged and critiqued but this is where I've gotten so far on the basic plan.

    Details…

    Layout Room: 11'x14' - One Entrance.
    NOTE: There is also a closet in this room that I'm going to install a new door in and cut it in two, Two-Thirds on the bottom half and One-Third on the top. This will allow me to crawl under the layout and access the closet through the bottom half of the door when needed - long term storage area seldom used.

    Layout Type: Walk-Around shelf type with steel support brackets built into 2'x4' "Modular" sections.

    Layout Features: Continuous Loop using Lift Out Bridge (Lance Mindheim Construction Style) and Point-to-Point.

    Layout Height: Approx: 54 inches (Armpit Height).

    Layout Depth: 24 Inches (Service Island is 36" x 48" but reachable from both sides).

    Track: Atlas Code 55 with #5 & #7 Turnouts.

    Control: Digitrax DCC w/AR-1 for Wye and Built-In Auto-Reverse on Turntable.

    Lighting & Signals: Controlled by Arduino & JMRI.

    Aisle Width: Minimum 3 feet / Maximum 4 feet

    Construction: 1"x4" Select Pine, 1/8 plywood base and 1" Blue Foam.

    Backdrop: 1/8" Masonite.

    Era: Modern Diesel and some F3's, F7's, etc. thrown in for special excursions.

    Roads: BNSF (and it's fallen flags) plus Amtrak.

    Industries: Coal, Intermodal, Agriculture & Passenger.

    Region: Fictitious in early fall.

    Grade: 2% (Modern Coal Mine) and less.

    Please look it over let me know if you see any potential issues or things you would do differently for smoother operations.

    Layout 14425.JPG
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Jim
    Modern Diesel BNSF, Fallen Flags of BNSF & Amtrak
    11' x 14' Shelf Layout with Peninsula
    , DCC, JMRI & Arduino
    Atlas Code 55


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    Just some questions...

    What's the story behind the name 14425?

    Amtrak pulls out of staging, stops at town and city, then how do you get it back to staging - long backup move?

    Looking at those passing sidings... how long will your trains be?

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    Hi NtheBasement,

    14425 is is just the code number until I decide what to call the line. It's the PIN number to my Swiss Bank Account.

    Amtrak - I was considering two P42's facing away from each other and to do a run-around at the main station. I need to check my train lengths spreadsheet again. Typically the Consists will be two P42's and four passenger cars.

    Coal trains will be two to three locos plus ten cars.

    Intermodal will be about the same. Again, I plan on opening my spreadsheet this weekend and also laying out the actual locos and cars for true Consist measurements.

    The good new is, nothing is set in stone yet. The only thing that is in place already is the turntable and roundhouse on the 3'x4' section.

    Thanks for your input. These are the right kinds of questions that need to be addressed.
    Jim
    Modern Diesel BNSF, Fallen Flags of BNSF & Amtrak
    11' x 14' Shelf Layout with Peninsula
    , DCC, JMRI & Arduino
    Atlas Code 55


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    I'm wondering if the coal mine could be moved , as it is now it right beside the main city . I'm no expert , but aren't they usually fairly outside any town or city ? The way it is now , there isn't enough separation to do a scenic block , well maybe a small one at best .

    Steve

    Edit , I blew the pic up and had a better look at it , there should be enough room to do a scenic block , not large but enough . But I kinda still think that it should be farther away , and maybe move the intermodal yard closer to the main city . A small town makes sense to support a coal mine , and a larger city makes more sense to support a intermodal yard . A intermodal yard can be supported well logistics wise from a main city . Just my thoughts

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    Hi Jim;

    Looks pretty good for the space you have. As far as back and forth passenger trains go, the trains run by the North Carolina DOT (the Piedmont service) usually run with four-five cars and an engine on both ends. This means no turning in either Charlotte or Raleigh. See https://www.alamy.com/raleigh-north-...229727679.html

    Going to use a Tortoise on that back turnout on your wye? If so, I'd suggest a DPDT relay wired to the Tortoise contacts instead of an auto-reverser. Cheaper, the relay can use the same power supply as the Tortoise, it's more reliable, and totally avoids short circuits. Auto-reversers don't prevent short circuits, they detect them and change the polarity before the booster or circuit breaker trips.

    I'll get off of my soap box now.
    Tim Rumph
    Modeling the Southern Railway in N-Scale

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    I would make a connection from the intermodal yard to the spur or the passing siding in front of the window so you get a switching lead for the intermodal trains. Otherwise, every time you're doing anything on the intermodal track, you are fouling the main.
    Serdar

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    Others have pointed out how short your runarounds are; I won't call them passing sidings because I don't think they are really long enough for a decent-length train, aside from a commuter/passenger train perhaps. But I think the simple solution is just to join them together so that the track through Main City is double track all the way. You might keep a pair of turnouts to form a crossover that essentially makes one long siding able to act like two shorter ones.

    I agree with @ssoysal that the intermodal should connect into this long passing siding, so that its switching can be done without blocking the main, and so that it feels like it belongs to Main City.

    The engine and car servicing area feels like it should have a yard nearby. The short spur you have to what appears to be a grain elevator seems like it is in a spot where yard tracks could go, and this spur could be the yard ladder and lead into the servicing area. The mainline curve there could be broadened, and the grain elevator spur could be relocated to the outside of this curve. Basically, you'd have a yard whose ladder begins at the end of the long siding discussed above, letting that siding do some duty as an A/D track, though theoretically the yard is just for equipment being taken offline for repairs so you really don't need an active A/D. Rather, the whole repair facility is more akin to a large industry, one which takes in and puts out all sorts of cars (through trains may occasionally pick up or set out cars from the yard).

    I see the issues with the coal mine location, it is a challenge scenically, but operationally I think it is in an okay location. Maybe the small town can have a small yard and a one-track engine facility for a dedicated switcher, and treat this as a branch line. Road freights just pick up or set out to the small yard, while the switcher trundles up the branch. Speaking of "up", giving this some gradient may help it to feel separate from the town, as it sits an inch higher.

    Get yourself a Rail Pass for free travel on the WP&P: wpandp.com
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    To all responses,

    Thank you for your input and sorry for the delay on getting back to you. I've been working on the track plan some more now that I've realistically looked at my loco and rolling stock lengths and have come up with a list of trainsets I would like to run. I'm now reworking my plan to lengthen the sidings, change the city local, etc. However, my foot print will remain unchanged due to the fact of the room layout and dimensions. That being said, I decided to start "mocking up" my benchwork design and built two 2'x4' modules this past weekend. I also had a chance to replace my hollow-core door (Did not want to destruct the original door for home resale purposes) and now have a Dutch door so I can still gain access to the closet once the layout is complete. Attached are a few photos of my progress. It took all weekend to get this far!
    DSC_1808.jpgDSC_1824.jpgDSC_1833.jpgDSC_1842.jpgDSC_1848.jpgDSC_1854.jpgDSC_1859.jpgDSC_1863.jpgDSC_1870.jpgDSC_1871.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Jim
    Modern Diesel BNSF, Fallen Flags of BNSF & Amtrak
    11' x 14' Shelf Layout with Peninsula
    , DCC, JMRI & Arduino
    Atlas Code 55


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    Additional Photos...

    Valance mocked up and LED lighting tests.

    DSC_1881.jpgDSC_1880.jpgDSC_1914.jpgDSC_1915.jpg
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Jim
    Modern Diesel BNSF, Fallen Flags of BNSF & Amtrak
    11' x 14' Shelf Layout with Peninsula
    , DCC, JMRI & Arduino
    Atlas Code 55


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    Attached is the latest revision of the track plan. I've moved some things around and it seems to make more sense now, especially the Lift-Out Bridge section. Let me know what you guys think. Hopefully, I'm not overlooking something that would foul things up too much. Thanks.

    14425 N Scale.JPG
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    Jim
    Modern Diesel BNSF, Fallen Flags of BNSF & Amtrak
    11' x 14' Shelf Layout with Peninsula
    , DCC, JMRI & Arduino
    Atlas Code 55


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    One observation for you. I am concerned about the exit on your staging yard. Unless you want the outbound train to go through your grain facility, you lose about half of the functionality of your staging yard. Otherwise the upper half of staging is merely dedicated to your mining operation for all tense and purpose. In addition, the only way an outbound from the coal mine can access the main is to back into it.

    One more for you to consider - the switch to the right of the grain facility. That is a nasty jog there going back to staging creating a S curve. Before you glue anything down, I would test run the crap out of that curve.

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    Thanks, Dave. I'll get back on the plan tomorrow and make the adjustments. Always nice to have another railroader's eyes on it to see things I miss. Trying to get as close as possible before temporarily laying the track for testing purposes. I'm sure that once it's temporarily laid, I'll look back and and say "what was I thinking?" on a few areas. Software just doesn't do the actual justice. All part of the fun!
    Jim
    Modern Diesel BNSF, Fallen Flags of BNSF & Amtrak
    11' x 14' Shelf Layout with Peninsula
    , DCC, JMRI & Arduino
    Atlas Code 55


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    Jim,
    Before you get too far along, I have a few ideas as well.
    I'll get a copy of your plan posted that made some adjustments to shortly.
    The Little Rock Line blog


    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin

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    I'd reconsider how the yard is designed. You're using R/H turnouts on the ladder and creating a series of "S" curves doing so. L/H turnouts would be better and more prototypical. I think you'll find it also increases the yard's capacity

    Also, the yard shares the same lead with the engine terminal. Functionally that's not the best approach. Consider giving the yard a dedicated drill track.

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    Paul is right about those turnouts. You have the same issue with the bottom track at the coal mine. You could use one of the right hand turnouts to replace the left hand turnout which controls the bottom two tracks at the coal mine.

    Also I'm a little concerned about the alignment of the curved turnout in the lower left corner. Not the fact that the tracks don't meet exactly, but that the tracks and the turnout appear to meet at quite different angles.

    All in all, though, I like the general concept of the plan!
    Cheers!
    Gordon
    Rheinland Bayern Bahn
    http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthr...4-x-9-5-layout

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    Paul and Gordon are right.
    It's one of the things that I seen as well.
    I moved the crossover to the right of the yard so it could be accessed from the main, otherwise you'd be using the
    lead into the engine facility to get cars in and out of the yard. Moving the crossovers like I did makes that siding
    an A/D (Arrival/Departure) track.

    I also re aligned the tracks in the upper right hand corner for the grain siding.
    See how the tracks will lay out as this drawing looks a little sharp.


    Here's what I came up with


    The Little Rock Line blog


    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin

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    Dave, Paul, Gordon & a special thank you to Allen;

    You're input has been a tremendous help. I worked with the plan for hours yesterday and the simple thing of the ladder on the yard being a big mess didn't jump out at me. I've now corrected it and actually flipped it to help move the small town closer to the farmland. As far as staging and the siding behind the Intermodal yard, they have also been reworked. Please review the plan as it stands now to see what you guys think.

    Also, in looking at Google Images of the Intermodal yard in North Fort Worth (Haslet, TX), they have single tracks set up where the Mi-Jacks load and unload containers. The Walthers N-Scale Mi-Jack is wide enough to support a double track and still have the ability to load/unload. Do you think I should switch to a double track in the Intermodal yard? What are the pros and cons to this approach?

    Also to Allen, thanks again for mocking up the drawing and for all your help you've given me in the past on Speed Matching my locomotives. You are a true Model Railroader and a great asset to the N-Scale community!


    14425 N-Scale.JPG
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Jim
    Modern Diesel BNSF, Fallen Flags of BNSF & Amtrak
    11' x 14' Shelf Layout with Peninsula
    , DCC, JMRI & Arduino
    Atlas Code 55


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    Looking better, but still concerned about that staging area. Your right and middle tracks are still beholden to the mine outside of what looks like room for about an engine and maybe 5 or 6 cars before you hit your first switch which is the only escape from the yard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbobones View Post
    Dave, Paul, Gordon & a special thank you to Allen;

    You're input has been a tremendous help. I worked with the plan for hours yesterday and the simple thing of the ladder on the yard being a big mess didn't jump out at me. I've now corrected it and actually flipped it to help move the small town closer to the farmland. As far as staging and the siding behind the Intermodal yard, they have also been reworked. Please review the plan as it stands now to see what you guys think.

    Also to Allen, thanks again for mocking up the drawing and for all your help you've given me in the past on Speed Matching my locomotives. You are a true Model Railroader and a great asset to the N-Scale community!
    Thanks Jim, I appreciate that, but I'm no different than any of the other modelers on here. It's a great community and what this forum is all about.

    One quick note.
    Ever since the Operation bug bit me, I've always tried to get layouts somewhat setup for OP's whether that person wants OP's or doesn't understand OP's at the present.
    If you can get your layout set up for OP's now, in the planning stage, and even if you don't make use of the design, sooner or later that bug will bite them and they'll see something they like or want to try and then they'll look at their layout and say "Ah crap! In order to do this I'll have to rip out or modify my layout" and then it becomes a burden.
    Do it now so before the bug bites and there will be less work to start OP'ing.

    I think flipping that yard did not do anything to improve it. You now have effectively cut the length of train down in half with it connecting halfway through the A/D track. The yard needs to come off one end or the other.
    In fact, that whole area needs some help. Sorry, not being critical, it just doesn't do anything.
    The farm, the small town and the yard needs to be reworked. There's something there, but I just can't see it yet.
    Maybe one of the guys will chime in?

    I know, you're saying "Oh Great more re-work" But it'll be worth it later. whether you OP or just run trains.

    Let me stare at it awhile and discuss a few things?
    The Little Rock Line blog


    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin

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    Ok, thanks Allen. I agree that I'm just a Railfan now (hence the continuous run with the lift-out bridge) but like you said, I want to get more into OP's later and there is no reason I shouldn't be planning for it now. If I can avoid ripping things up later, I'm all for it.

    You said "The yard needs to come off one end or the other." I'm a bit confused on this. Please elaborate and if you could sketch it on the plan again, that would be great.

    Thanks!



    Jim
    Modern Diesel BNSF, Fallen Flags of BNSF & Amtrak
    11' x 14' Shelf Layout with Peninsula
    , DCC, JMRI & Arduino
    Atlas Code 55


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