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Thread: Just playing with ideas ...

  1. #21
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    I think that you'll enjoy the double ended yard with it being a "running layout" a lot better. That way you can swap out trains without having to take them off of the track.
    Bo D.
    B&O Keyridge Subdivision
    I'm not allowed to run the train, the whistle I can't blow. I'm not allowed to say how fast the Railroad Train can go.
    I'm not allowed to shoot off steam, nor even clang the bell. But let the damned Train jump the track, and see who catches hell!


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  3. #22
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    I agree whole heartedly. The more I looked at the base plan the more bored I got I kept comparing it to my current disaster and decided I needed "more to do" other than JUST run trains around in a circle so to speak. This plan (I think) gives me a couple of options.
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

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  5. #23
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    Okay, so one more inclusion and (I now believe) the final Track Plan:



    A couple of questions I'd like responded to honestly and openly please:

    1. Is the Small Depot Town Track too much and will it work for just running "freight" from the main town back and forth to give my switcher some work?
    2. Can anyone see ANYTHING that maybe an issue or unworkable across the entire plan especially the turnouts positions?

    As said, please be honest and direct with your opinions, I don't want to get into this to find that something wont work or is going to cause problems.

    Some detail regarding the plan:

    1. All curve radii are 15" or larger with most being 18" and larger.
    2. The maximum Gradient is 2.3% with the majority being 2.0%
    3. I intend building this using the "cookie cutter method"
    4. All Tunnels will have "removal tops" for access

    I think that is it.
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

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  7. #24
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    So far as the area on the left, I suggest just leaving it countryside. That could be cropland, pasture, or meadows and forest, depending on the area you want to model.
    Cheers!
    Gordon
    Rheinland Bayern Bahn
    http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthr...4-x-9-5-layout

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  9. #25
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    Thanks Gordon. Initially I wanted that area to be the town but think the yard kind of limited that idea. A forest area with small park and lake or something might look good I think.
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

  10. #26
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    I'm not a fan of the curved bridges on the left half, where the track passes over itself. I would work hard to try and make the bridge spans be straight, and it seems like there is plenty of room to do so here. Just straighten out the S-curve of the high line and run straight across. This might limit the platform length below somewhat, but it also could become an opportunity; there are places in the real world where a train station serves two lines that cross at different heights, such as Kenova, West Virginia. You might tuck a structure into that crotch and make a neat scene out of it.

    The small town area on the right with the short runaround track feels like it is missing something, such as a short industry spur or two that are the justification for the runaround. Even if you're not going to be actively switching industries and prefer to watch trains run around the loop, I still think a spur or two would serve a scenic function to help define that town.

    You show three tunnel portals all close together where the scenic branch line comes off, but I am guessing you mean for this to be one big three-track portal? If you want the scenic line to have its own separate one-track portal then you would need to be careful about giving that portal enough space. You need about 2"-3" of clearance from the track centerline at a minimum for each portal, so if you have two such that are side-by-side you could end up with 5" or more between the track centers. But if I am correct, you intend to have a 3-track portal on one end, then a 2-track portal and a 1-track portal on the other end, which can work (it's just not very prototypical).

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  11. #27
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    I have one question .....errr maybe 2

    Does the tourist line have a way to get to the station tracks ? Maybe it's my eyes , but I can't see a way for it to get there . Is there a way ?


    Steve

    PS , my brain is numb and I bet there is

  12. #28
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    Good point! It looks as though the Tourist Train gets to the main station either by reversing on the main line or continuing around the main line route.
    Cheers!
    Gordon
    Rheinland Bayern Bahn
    http://www.nscale.net/forums/showthr...4-x-9-5-layout

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    Do you have any way of switching trains between the 2 main tracks?

  14. #30
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    WP&P

    Quote Originally Posted by WP&P View Post
    I'm not a fan of the curved bridges on the left half, where the track passes over itself. I would work hard to try and make the bridge spans be straight, and it seems like there is plenty of room to do so here. Just straighten out the S-curve of the high line and run straight across.
    Good point and I agree with you. Straightening that bridge area up is easy. All I'll need to do is start the curve (at the southern side) a little further south and that should straighten that bridge area out.

    Quote Originally Posted by WP&P View Post
    The small town area on the right with the short runaround track feels like it is missing something, such as a short industry spur or two that are the justification for the runaround. Even if you're not going to be actively switching industries and prefer to watch trains run around the loop, I still think a spur or two would serve a scenic function to help define that town.
    This one I am not sure of ... are you saying I need to add one or two spurs to the run around track and an industry of some kind for them? If that is right then I only have about 6.5" of room between the run around track and the main line?

    Ahh yes, the Tunnels and the Portals First up - I only drew in the tunnels for aesthetics and they will most likely change when the track is down and I can see the actual space available and where a tunnel's might work. I do like the general area of where the tunnels are drawn but their precise location will be determined at the time of the actual build. As for the portals - that is how SCARM draws them, it doesn't give an option for a double track portal unfortunately; however, in the real world - all tunnels portals on the double main will be single double track portals most likely custom made.

    In the event that S/E tunnel does eventuate then you are correct - there will be a double portal for the main line and a single portal for the tourist line.

    Steve and Gordon,

    Gordon is right, in order for the "tourist train" to get back to the main station it needs to continue around the main line. I couldn't (and can't) see any other way of making it work, unless you guys can.

    Gary,

    Yep, there are 3 separate sets of turnouts/points along the double main route for that purpose. One in the North, another in the S/E corner and the last just to the left of the main town platform.

    Thanks guys for your comments they are exactly what I was after - constructive criticism of the plan with suggestions to fix it. Appreciate it a lot!!!
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

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  16. #31
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    Bridge work fixed

    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

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  18. #32
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    Was thinking about what Gary asked and took a better look at the turnouts I had for moving from one track to the other (main line). The more I looked at them the more I couldn't see any reason for them all - most didn't seem to serve any useful purpose. As such, I have removed two of the three sets of turnouts (circled in BLUE) and modified the third set (circled in GREEN) as follows:



    Anyone see an issue with only having the one set of turnouts for moving from one track to the other and back again?
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

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  20. #33
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    One more update - have added a passing track for the "freight line":



    The addition of the passing track brings the length of the track work up to 152 feet. I think that is more than enough now - thoughts, opinions, ideas?
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

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  22. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat457 View Post
    Anyone see an issue with only having the one set of turnouts for moving from one track to the other and back again?
    On my layout I have only one set of turnouts for moving from track to track as well. I use Railroad & Co. TrainController software to run my trains. When I have multiple trains running in both directions I sometimes experience one of my main line tracks blocked for extended periods as a train waits for switching over. This leads to other trains backing up and waiting. I would recommend having two locations where you can switch over.

    Regards,
    Warren

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  24. #35
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    Thank you and while I probably wont be running more than 3 trains at any one time your point is valid and noted.
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

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    Here are my few comments:

    1. Regarding the locations of crossovers, I would be inclined to have these be located just outside of the yard limits and oriented to allow a train coming from the yard to get out onto either main track. The one on the left could be done in several ways, since it is right where the curve ends. For a regular straight-through crossover where you pair two right-hand (RH) turnouts, it would have to begin at the tangent to the curve. But a RH turnout coming off of that curve (on the interior line) would amount to a bit of S-curve, so it might be preferable to use one LH and one RH to eliminate the S-curve, as well as position the crossover a bit further to the left (making more room for the passing siding). On the right side it seems there is plenty of room for a pair of LH turnouts. You might not need any other crossovers than these; if you were really treating this all like a prototype double-track main then you could keep the other crossovers near the top. But I think you're intending to run a "freight" loop alongside a "passenger" loop, and won't need to have trains dance from one track to the other for meets, so the ones on the outskirts of the yard are all you'll need.

    2. What I was saying about the small town industry spur, even just a single switchback spur to Wombat's Widget Company (or whatever you wish) could serve to justify the short runaround there. You could add more if you want to make a switching puzzle out of it, but I think even just the one track I've added here can prove to be a mild challenge to switch whenever the urge comes along, otherwise it just serves as a scenic element that helps define the town.

    3. The yard can be lengthened a bit by giving up some of the yard lead length on the right end. Normally this isn't what I should be recommending, but in this case I think your yard is going to serve more like visible staging rather than as an operational switching yard. Basically, all of your tracks are A/D tracks capable of containing a full train. The only thing you might consider is branching off a spur or two to an engine servicing area, even if it is just a one-stall engine house. This would give you a way to cut the engines off the staged trains, so that it looks more like a sorting yard by just having cuts of cars rather than compleat trains.

    4. The thing with the tunnel portals at the bottom edge is that you probably need to be planning for it, by giving the scenic line a tighter radius so that it can widen away from the double track main. I exaggerated a bit with my sketching, but you can see how the scenic line has a tighter curve between some straight/tangent track, and the tunnel portals happen where the spread is greatest. For the other ends of the tunnels, I would stagger them, to increase the sense of separation; the scenic line would just be hidden behind the rock face of a deep cut where the main line approaches its portal. And I would use 2-track portals for the main, rather than two 1-track portals.

    ForWombat-101719.jpg

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  27. #37
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    WP$P

    Thank you very much for your diagram and ideas. I will definitely give them a close look but at first glance, I like the Yard Extension, the Spur and the mod to the tourist line in the S/E corner - all of that (I think) can be easily done. I'll have to look at the cross over thought at the eastern end of the yard though for radius.
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

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    So here it is with the changes suggested:



    The yellow circle denote the inclusion and removal of turnouts while the other changes are, I think, obvious. I believe this is coming together thanks to the input that you guys have offered. Much appreciated.

    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

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  30. #39
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    Okay - look out world IGNORANCE is on it's way

    1. What on earth is an A/D Track and which are they/is it on my track plan?

    Apparently I have one or some. Trust me, I didn't have a clue that I achieved that mile stone

    2. The additional little spur for the Small Town - I don't understand how that works at all. I am assuming you need to "back" rolling stock into it for "loading/unloading" or storage of a box car or something and that "Wombats Widgets" (like that) is located next to it?

    Now you have some idea why I steer clear of operations and the like
    Cheers Tony

    "Knowing what to do is one thing ... being able to do it is another"
    "It is easy to criticize ... a lot harder when you have to justify it"

  31. #40
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    @wombat457

    Someone may explain your questions better, but here is my attempt.

    1. An A/D track is meant to handle trains Arriving and Departing (Arrival/Departure Track). Railroads Build and Breakdown trains on A/D tracks.
    2. I think your spur in the small town is like that so that you can push/pull a car into a position by having access to either end of your train. The additional spur looks as if it the place where you are to park the freight cars.
    Bo D.
    B&O Keyridge Subdivision
    I'm not allowed to run the train, the whistle I can't blow. I'm not allowed to say how fast the Railroad Train can go.
    I'm not allowed to shoot off steam, nor even clang the bell. But let the damned Train jump the track, and see who catches hell!


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