Northern New England Scenic V3 Build

[edfhinton]

After moving back to NH in the summer, I thought I would switch to HO scale with the larger space. But I changed my mind in August and on August 30th, 2019, the NNE Scenic V3 began construction. This build thread will document my build over what is likely to be the next couple decades.

Design parameters are as follows:

Room size:
Initially: 25'8" x 17.5'
With planned expansion: 25'8" x 27'6" with stairs located within footprint.

Location: the NH sections of the eastern and western routes of the Boston & Maine railroad between Boston, MA and Portland ME, plus the B&M route to North Conway and eventually across to Fabyan in Crawford Notch.

Timeframe: late 1940s to early 1950s. Equipment will roughly match B&M equipment in 1951.

Layout is planned for 3 decks around the walls with a J shaped peninsula. All wall sections will be mounted on shelf brackets while the helix and peninsula will have legs. I a reusing benchwork sections from V2 complete with the 2" foam for parts of the lower level.

Planned benchwork top heights are 32" (with rolling chairs/stools), 50", and 64". The top level at 64" will be mostly scenery from Conway through Crawford Notch to Fabyan, so I am not worried about it being rather high for operating asnot much switching will occur there. And that level is probably a decade away anyway

Here is the basic room and benchwork footprint after the planned room expansion:

RoomAndBenchworkFootprint_compressed.jpg

Prior to room expansion, the room stops at the left side of the stairs with a dor to the unfinished side of the basement and the closet is currently located from the stairs to the bottom wall on the diagram. The expansion will consume about 1/2 of the unfinished basement area, still leaving plenty of room around the household utilities accessed through the "new door".

Plan is to spend the fall and winter starting construction on the railroad in the existing room footprint. When I reach the point of not being able to continue the lowest level benchwork and track without the expansion, then I will switch gears and do the room expansion, ideally sometime in the summer of 2020.

Next post will show the track plans for the 3 levels. They continue to evolve slightly as I build, but a lot of revisions have occurred already so it is getting pretty close to how it will likely end up.

-Ed

[edfhinton]

Here are the current track plans for the NNE Scenic V3.

Lower Level:
LowerLevelPlanOct2019_compressed.jpg

This is the Eastern route from the MA/NH border to the NH/ME border and will include the bridge into Maine. The level also includes staging which represents both Boston and Portland. My wife grew up in Portsmouth and we have lived there at one point as well as both spending time in these seacoast times over the years.


Middle Level:
MiddleLevelPlanOct2019_compressed.jpg

This is the Western route starting from Exeter up to Dover but then continuing north through Wakefield and Madison heading north towards Conway. My wife and I previously lived in Exeter (when I started building NNE Scenic V1) and we now live in Dover. Madison is a memory for us when I was building V1, visiting there and riding the speeder with the track inspector, so we are both glad to add it back in for V3. It was not included in V2.


Upper Level:
UpperLevelPlanOct2019_compressed.jpg

This level starts with Conway and together with its route through Crawford Notch is among our favorite parts of NH. I never got around to modelling Frankenstein trestle on V1, but if I get to level 3 someday it will be to scale, uncompressed. In a few weeks we are going to be riding the Notch Train over it taking the ride from Conway to Fabyan and back.

-Ed

[edfhinton]

The first physical work to be done was to prep the room.


Here is what I had to work with after the movers left. The room pretty much stayed this way until August 25th.
20190823_153224_compressed.jpg

It was rather depressing really. All that stuff to unpack and clear and not sure where to put it. In the far end were all the benchwork sections and legs as well as backdrop from NNE Scenic V2.


Here was the view from the other end.
20190823_153243_compressed.jpg

Lots to unpack. As mentioned, my full layout plan depends on expanding the finished area of the room. behind the stairs and the closet is the unfinished area:
20190823_153051_compressed.jpg

The entire wall is planned to be shifted back 6 feet to the location of the support post. The closet is the other side of the wall from that blue carpet.

Below shows the remaining 7 feet of width I will still leave unfinished for the utilities. Plenty of room remaining to service the utilities, etc.


20190823_153142_compressed.jpg


However, as mentioned, I realized that it will take some time to fill just the existing space, so I can wait on the expansion.


So on Sunday, August 25th, I moved all the benchwork pieces into the unfinished side, unpacked all the boxes, stowed supplies in the appropriate drawer units, took down the two small shelves that were mounted on the wall, and then the finished area looked like this:
20190825_144745_compressed.jpg 20190826_171428_compressed.jpg

I was left with a few framed photos to find places for, and eventually the bookshelves by the stairs will find a new location, but the room was ready to start construction of the layout.


The long blank wall is from the helix up to Hampton Falls. The currently finished area will allow me to build 2/3 of the staging and all of Hampton Falls, Hampton, and Greenland on the first level, and similar amount of the second level. For more continuous running, I could also do something temporary to connect back around to staging, but more likely I will do the room expansion at that point so I probably won;t do anything temporary.


-Ed

[edfhinton]

On August 30th, I officially started construction. I am starting with the long right hand wall of the design.

First step was to mount shelving standards and brackets. Here are the first 9 sets in place. I bought myself a 78" magnetic level and boy did that make it easy to get it all level.

20190830_151711_compressed.jpg

The drawer unit is the tallest I will need to store at 25" high. The next step was to work with an existing benchwork section and cardboard to determine my desired benchwork heights. After playing around a bit, I settled on 32", 50", 64" for the heights of the tops of the sections.

The 18" track separation between the lower level and the middle level will give a seated operator a great view, and the 32" height is perfect for me as a working height seated in a rolling chair. Similarly, the 50" height is a great standing working height for me.


The other decision was whether or not to keep the 2" foam that is on the existing benchwork sections. I had planned to remove it due to concerns over shrinkage. But after considering it further, I decided to keep the foam.

Two factors drove that decision:


1) It is really solidly on the sections. I used a full glue layer at the time brushed over the whole surface, so it is not wanting to budge without really destroying it.


2) I will have several water features on this level, and the foam is great for that. Water areas and other lower ground levels are the whole reason I have always used foam on all the versions of my railroad.


I will deal with the foam shrinkage issue by trying methods for decoupling foam movement from roadbed movement including some variations on one poster's approach on another forum of using pins and no glue to fasten cork to foam.

I have some ideas that build on that but that involve multiple layers.


Here are the first two sections of reused benchwork in place:
20190831_134242_compressed.jpg


There were a few challenges that I designed for when it comes to mounting the existing benchwork to the shelf brackets. The primary challenge is that the brackets are 24" on center based on the wall studs, but the cross pieces of the existing benchwork sections do not match that. In addition, The longest brackets I could find are only 20" long, but the benchwork sections in some places will be wider. In this area, the benchwork width is 25.5".


The solution I settled on was spanning the width of the benchwork using metal L channel. I was going to use C channel, but local availability in stock as well as concerns with minor alignment issues being easier to deal with using L channel made up my mind.


As shown here, the channel is cut to length with a hacksaw and miter box, then drilled for screws and screwed to the benchwork at the correct locations to align over the brackets.

20190831_125431_compressed.jpg


Later on I will actually fasten them to ensure they cannot slip off, but I alternated bracket direction so they really can't slide anyway.


Here are a couple more shots of the mounting.

20190831_134338_compressed.jpg 20190831_134406_compressed.jpg

Last step was to ensure everything was level (it is) and screw the two sections together so they cannot shift from each other.


Next step would be to start my experiments with how I will build up the subroadbed in a manner that is decoupled from future foam shrinkage yet ensuring the track is fixed in place.


-Ed

[edfhinton]

Labor Day weekend I started the first steps of my experiment for how I will decouple the roadbed from the 2" foam insulation. I am going to try this out for the sections on the long wall, because almost the entire length is a single track, so whatever work goes into this and whatever the results, I can always redo, especially since the decoupled roadbed from foam means I can relatively easily pull up what I do.


Step 1 was to lay out the 1:1 printout of the track from XTrackCad to get a visual sense of how it will look.
20190901_143804_compressed.jpg

I am really liking the long, slow, 10 foot radius right curve in the center followed by the 65" radius left curve that looks sharp in comparison even though the sharper looking curve is over 5 foot radius plus easements. I can't wait to see a good length N scale train on that curve.


After adding another section of the benchwork, I also decided to cut the printout 1/8" away from the track farthest from the wall to give me a contour to mark for where the edge of the cork roadbed will belong.

20190902_173839_compressed.jpg 20190902_173913_compressed.jpg

As shown, the right side has multiple layers under the paper printout. That is where I have started the steps to try my experiment. I could just lightly pin the cork roadbed to the foam. But I am sometimes prone to getting ideas that complicate things, and this is one of those times. I want it to be foolproof for decades despite the potential for the foam shrinkage. So I am trying a multi-layer approach that ensures that subsequent work with scenic materials, static grass, etc would not end up unexpectedly gluing the cork down anyway, and therefore still someday being moved by foam shrinkage and affecting the track. I also wanted a base under the track that if truly decoupled would be less likely to move on its own.


Here is a closer look at the first section with the multiple layers.

20190902_174340_compressed.jpg

The three layers are:
1) Bottom layer: 0.125" thick Laminate foam cork underlayment. This material is soft, a little stretchy, and the underside has a polyethelene moisture barrier. This material cuts very easily with scissors and was cut a few inches wider than the area for the track. It is laid down on the 2" foam with no adhesive of any kind. I like the cushion it provides as a potential sound deadening layer between the next layer and the foam. Because of the slippery polyethelene underside and the elasticity, any movement of the foam below would need to be pretty extreme to move the layers above it. Because it is not coupled to the foam below and has the poly moisture barrier, I would expect any future 2" foam shrinkage to simply move past the layer above. While it isn't considered cheap, a 75' long 3' wide roll which will be twice what I need for the entire lower level was about $50, so in the grand scheme of the cost of materials of a huge layout it is not much.


2) Middle layer: 0.125" tempered hardboard with the tempered side down glued to the cork foam underlayment using yellow wood glue. The hardboard, which was left over from V2, also was cut wider than the track roadbed and I did not try to create a precise outline since later the scenery will want variations in ground contours anyway.


3) The cork roadbed which currently is just laid down but will get glued to the hardboard and then sanded before adding the track.


Because the hardboard did not need precise cuts, I was able to do it really easily with these:

20190901_150411_compressed.jpg

I had bought those back when I was building V1 to cut FRP (fiberglass reinforced plastic) that I had used at the time for my fascia and backdrop. I have since abandoned use of FRP but sure enough these allowed me to rough cut the tempered hardboard like tin shears cutting aluminum siding.


Here is another look at the initial experimental area from the other end:

20190902_174545_compressed.jpg


Before gluing down the cork roadbed, I will make sure to smooth the seam where the sections of hardboard meet to avoid introducing a bump in the cork. Later, I will sand the cork lightly before laying down the flex track and testing it out.


I will also be looking forward to seeing how the rough cut hardboard edges and cork foam underlayment work out for applying scenery including roads and other features.


-Ed

[edfhinton]

Closing out labor day weekend, I continued the experiment with more of my multiple layers.

As part of my experiment, I put down the hardboard tempered side up the second time before putting down the cork roadbed. I wanted to see if there would be any difference in train sound one way or the other. As for the first section, the cork foam underlayment was not fastened to the 2" extruded foam. The hardboard is glued with yellow glue to the underlayment and the cork roadbed is glued with yellow glue to the haardboard.


The next weekend, I finished matching the track to the roadbed curve. I soldered feeders to the underside of the track and connected up the NCE to the bus for my first test of a train on the NNE Scenic V3.


Here is just a GP-7 lonely on this long meandering stretch of about 10' of track.
20190913_123924_compressed.jpg 20190913_123934_compressed.jpg

Then I finally unwrapped enough rolling stock from the move to make a train Here is the single diesel with 16 cars plus caboose. I didn't bother with what cars I selected for now. Later I will need to adjust my fleet now that I have backdated. For today I just wanted something to look at and try running on this stretch.
20190913_144832_compressed.jpg 20190913_144900_compressed.jpg


I love how the train sits on the very gradual curves.


And finally here is the train running down the track. Unfortunately, the sound is white noise because I forgot to turn off the dehumidifier. Next time I will turn off the dehumidifier first before taking video.




I was surprised how smoothly the train ran considering I did not clean either the wheels or the track after unpacking. So far so good. It was nice to run my first train even for a few feet on the start of the new layout.


FYI - I did also run just the GP-7 back and forth a few times and I could not detect any difference in train noise on the two halves of this stretch (hardboard tempered side down versus tempered side up). Since I like how smooth the tempered side is to glue the cork roadbed to, I will probably stick with tempered side up as I continue. I plan to use DAP later to affix the track to the cork roadbed which may reduce the sound as well a bit, but generally it is not very loud anyway. I don't think I am getting any drum effect from the 2" extruded foam because of the underlayment.


-Ed

[edfhinton]

In last half of September, my modelling time was more limited due to life in general. But I did start some initial baby steps towards landscape contours, and particularly seeing how it would work out to hide the l experimental multiple layer roadbed under landscape.


First, I carved the channel for one of the small rivers that meanders into the salt marshes in Seabrook and Hampton Falls, NH.
20190914_141809_compressed.jpg

While some of the streams are wide enough for bridges, many use concrete culverts. The one that is located in this area of the railroad will be one with a culvert. For now, I just wanted to carve it and start to work on contouring it as below.
20190915_114558_compressed.jpg

Next, I started the process of covering over the multiple layers that make up the subroadbed. I didn't want to defeat the whole point/purpose of my use of the underlayment over the foam (separation from foam shrinkage as well as sound dampening). So I started by using masking tape to tape the edges of the underlayment to the extruded foam. My thinking is that this way the compound used over it will not actually bond the underlayment to the extruded foam, allowing the elasticity of the underlayment and lack of adhesive to compensate for future extruded foam shrinkage.
20190922_075441_compressed.jpg

I also took this opportunity to tape the seams between module sections as well. While I hope not to move again, this replicates what I did for the seams between sections in Ohio on V2 that was easy to cut through and separate when we moved.
20190922_075452_compressed.jpg

Next I used a non-cracking joint compound to cover the profile from the roadbed across the underlayment and tape out to the extruded foam, tapering it out as well as on the taped joints.
20190922_084147_compressed.jpg

When dry, I lightly sanded, vacuumed, and painted the terrain with my new selection of base ground color.
20190927_111741_compressed.jpg 20190927_111807_compressed.jpg

While that was drying, I also framed out the corner section joining the long wall sections of the salt marsh to the next side wall area where Hampton Falls station will be heading north.
20190927_154757_compressed.jpg 20190927_154745_compressed.jpg 20190927_154751_compressed.jpg


I am debating whether to add extruded foam to the corner section or not. The salt marsh terrain will be similar to the sections it connects, but I am tempted to only keep the extruded foam with the multi-layer roadbed on the reused sections of benchwork from NNE Scenic V2.


-Ed

[edfhinton]

My next project I started was to construct the helix base and start the helix that is at the right hand corner and connect that corner to the section where the main lower level staging will be representing Boston and Portland.
In this post, I will focus on the helix base. By getting the helix base and first level in place, I will have the ability to start the staging and connect from staging to the long run to Hampton Falls.


The base itself is framed from 2x4's with 1/2" plywood for the surface. The opening in the center is roughly 30"x34", plenty of room to get around in. The legs have adjustable feet under them and are set on pieces of plywood to spread the weight and avoid loss of height from the feet sinking into the carpet below. Although once connection to the wall sections, it probably could skip having legs, but the last thing I will need is a slight unnoticed sag over time in the helix and trains plunging to the floor.
20191004_122444_compressed.jpg

You can see the next reused benchwork section that will be for the start of the staging on its side to the right of the helix.
20191004_122452_compressed.jpg

Next I used 3/4" plywood to framed the benchwork that connects between the existing reused sections north through Seabrook to the helix base.
20191004_142400_compressed.jpg


The helix base is purposely 3" lower than the top of the foam from the existing sections. The last time I built a helix, I tried to start with the base at exactly my benchwork height, and it made creating the first level of gradually increasing length supports difficult. So this way I can mount the helix raised an additional 2&1/2 inches to make the supports easier to cut and fasten.


I took a couple pictures at this stage from the two furthest corners of the room.
20191004_142655_compressed.jpg 20191004_145146_compressed.jpg


Next up... starting the helix itself.


-Ed

[edfhinton]

Yesterday (10/12), I completed construction of the roadbed for the first helix level. This post also gets me caught up, so going forward I will be back to posting at the pace of progress, rather than this all at once catch-up style.

Last time I built a helix, I tried cutting perfectly curved sections of plywood. Between quality (or lack thereof) of jigsaw, lack of good workbench, and low skill for cutting curves, the sections were pretty rough and I seemed to waste a lot of plywood.


So this time, I decided I would create trapezoidal sections 6" wide. I am using 8 sections for each level, so each end of each trapezoid is a 22.5 degree angle, easy enough to set on my miter saw.


My track radius will be 22.5" for the outer track and 20.5" for the inner track. Calculating the placement of the sections, I determined the outer long side of the trapezoids would be 19&3/8 inches.


I cut the 8 sections for the first level of the helix and laid them out to test fit. I then used 4" joining plates on the bottom of the sections to connect them together, leaving the last pair of sections not connected since they are different levels. The reason for the joining plates was to improve strength and so that if there are any slight variations that I don;t notice in the cutting of the support, the surface of the plywood sections will still be even.
20191011_140200_compressed.jpg

Unfortunately, it wasn't actually as easy as all that. The reason was that this was the first time since this power miter saw was purchased that I needed to make precise angled cuts other than 90 degrees. Well, when I first test fitted the 8 sections (prior to attaching the connecting plates), I found that the angles were very slightly off. I was surprised because after I had cut the first two sections, I had measured the total angle with my combination square 45 degree angle and it seemed good. But the amount it was off was apparently too little to notice with my combination square. But when I had all 8 sections down, it was very clear that the angle was just a little shallower than 22.5 degrees. So I adjusted the screw on my miter that points the pointer to the angle and adjusted by about 1/3 of a degree and carefully recut each end such that the long side stayed as is but the the saw took the slightly greater angle off each end.


That did the trick.


Lesson learned that a miter saw when received from the factory might need a small amount of adjusting to get precise angle cuts. I am just glad the angle hadn't been off in the other direction or else I would have either had to start over or slightly reduce the helix radius because the extra material would have come off the long side instead of the short side as was luckily the case.

After adding the connecting plates, I then carefully flipped over the first level and positioned it.
20191011_140540_compressed.jpg 20191011_140546_compressed.jpg

Next I calculated the cuts for the 8 pairs of supports I would position at the 8 joints holding the lowest level. Based on the height of the helix base relative to the benchwork height, my shortest supports start at 2&1/2 inches, and increase equally for each subsequent support. Based on my planned grade (roughly 2.5%), I found a tool to calculate % bevel for the top of each support, which came out close to 1%, so the bottoms of the supports are cut at 90 degrees and the tops at 89 degrees, using the longer end to match my expected lengths.
20191011_153825_compressed.jpg

Each support as I cut them in pairs was individually labelled with which end was top (sloped), which side is the shorter side, and the length of the long side.
20191011_153829_compressed.jpg


(That's a "2", not a "7" - my penmanship is awful).


Having also framed the benchwork section that connects the helix to staging, I then went ahead and mounted the lower level using the supports. I drilled pilot holes for all screws to enure I would not split the suports. At each joint is a pair of matching supports with screws through the 1/2" plywood down into the support and a screw under the helix base up into the support.

20191011_172820_compressed.jpg 20191011_172824_compressed.jpg 20191011_172829_compressed.jpg


As I worked, I checked to ensure the slope was consistent, and it all seemed like it went as planned.


Then, the oh-oh moment. It looked steeper to me than seemed right. So I rechecked my calculations of the grade. Yikes, I somehow messed up my first calculations and had set the support lengths such that the helix rises 4&1/2" per level. But that turns out is over 3% grade for the inner track. I should have been at 3&1/2 inches per level (3" clearance which is plenty in N scale.)

So I disassembled, cut down the supports (from one support to the next added 1/2" before, now it adds 3/8" per section) and screwed everything back in place. It also fixed a couple spots where the two supports previously were not perfectly identical at each joint. When carefully shortening each pair from the bottom 90 degree end, I cut each pair together in one cut, so now they are truly identical.


I didn't take a new picture yet after reassembling, but it looks effectively the same except for less grade and the top separation supports being 3" now instead of originally 4". Those top supports will be identical between levels, and now both ends are square 90 degrees since the levels should be parallel unlike the support of the lowest level from the base.


The one thing I planned to do, but forgot, but I will do for all subsequent levels, is to screw in next level supports onto the top of each section before screwing the section down. That worked well for me last time, staggering the support locations so I have a surface to drill and screw through next to the next level supports. So the next level I put up will be a little tricky to attach the supports to the existing base, requiring drilling angled pilot holes and toe-nailing in the screws (or maybe use small nails toe-nailed), but that won't be for quite a while, probably 6-12 months. I actually have no need to build more of the helix right now. I just needed to get it started with one level of roadbed and supports so I can appropriately position the track that connects from staging to the first layout level by passing in front of the helix.


-Ed

[baronjutter]

Absolutely massive layout, don't think we've seen a project this big since Micheal Rose left us.

[edfhinton]

I miss Michael's N scale project. He is back in HO scale now. But I have no illusions of coming anywhere near Michael's level of execution. I aim to do my best and to keep improving, but his workmanship is amazing. I also don;t have elves so I anticipate taking a lot longer than Michael tends to.

-Ed

[wombat457]

his certainly is a massive layout and undertaking but your work so far is impressive. Will be following this with interest

[dave68124]

Ed-

Thanks for all the pics and written walk through. Looks really great so far. As you think about the 2nd deck, how are you thinking about lighting the bottom deck?

[edfhinton]

Lighting for covered levels will use dimmable LED strips. I have not yet researched which strips I want to use, but I hope to learn from modellers who have used them. Back when I had started building V1, I used them for my hidden staging, and I learned a couple lessons then. One was not to rely on the self-adhesive backing on wood. The other was not to go with the cheapest cost ones. The ones I used then which I still have were not dimmable and were pretty harsh. I might reuse those for the staging area, but otherwise I definitely want better ones.

That was 6 years ago, and I know the technology and variety available has improved a lot since then.

-Ed

[dave68124]

Thanks. Keep in mind how you want to attach them as you build out the 2nd deck. I really like the adjustable shelf system and metal channels you used on the bottom deck, but it could make installing LED strips a challenge without some pre-planning.

Here are some light bar options. https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/rigid-light-bars/

[wombat457]

Just curious, what is the gradient for the helix?

[conrailandrew]

Any particular reason for the simple ladders in staging yard? Seems to me that compound ladders would give a lot more usable space to park trains.

I'm excited to follow along on this build!

Andrew

[edfhinton]

Thanks. Keep in mind how you want to attach them as you build out the 2nd deck. I really like the adjustable shelf system and metal channels you used on the bottom deck, but it could make installing LED strips a challenge without some pre-planning.

Here are some light bar options. https://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/rigid-light-bars/

A little explanation on the mounting approach. The use of the L channel was specific to the lowest level to accommodate easily mounting the preexisting type of benchwork sections I was reusing. For the middle and upper levels, I need to keep the vertical space used to a minimum, so I will be setting the plywood directly on the shelf brackets with 1x2 wood strips on either side and the front fascia backed by 1x2 good grade lumber. The fascia will be 3.5" which provides 1.5" below the 1x2's within which to mount the lighting.

Thanks for the light bar link. I anticipate, though, that I will use the rolled strips of LEDs and mount then on an angle (possible 45 degrees, but perhaps a bit shallower, perhaps 30 degrees) right behind the fascia. I still need to continue to research what others have done for mounting. I like the rolls of strip lights because they can be cut at desired lengths and cost for quality will tend to be less expensive for the amount of layout involved than going with light bars.

I appreciate the questions and ideas. Great questions lead to even better decisions.

Thanks,

-Ed

[edfhinton]

Just curious, what is the gradient for the helix?

Outer track is 2.5%, inner track roughly 2.7%.

However, I will test out the first level before going on the upper levels, and if it seems to be an issue I could disassemble a second time and cut all the risers down yet again. Most of my trains will have tat least 2 diesels pulling them, but I do want to test what a single engine will pull up the grade.

-Ed

[edfhinton]

Any particular reason for the simple ladders in staging yard? Seems to me that compound ladders would give a lot more usable space to park trains.

No well informed reason. I was mostly just keeping it so I could pull in one end and pull out the other from any track. But you are right about the wasted space. I am definitely open to suggestions. What I don't want to do is have to work outside the confines of the staging yard to assemble trains, particularly on the Portsmouth end.

Thanks,
-Ed