Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 81 to 91 of 91

Thread: Has DCC become overly complicated?

  1. #81
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    1,414
    Thanks
    2,638
    Thanked 2,229 Times in 827 Posts
    Mentioned
    62 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Schmidt View Post
    Not a thing you said addressed the intent of the question. It's not an all or nothing issue. And DCC is not too complex for me. But I think it's becoming too complex for the good of the hobby. When you need a laptop, freeware and an interface device to do more than basic programming, it's become too complicated. Something relatively simple as DCC was once upon a time has been driven into ridiculousness.
    Well, I strongly disagree here. Because if you didn't need a PC to do any programming 20 years ago, you can still achieve the same results today without a computer. All the BEMF stuff and sound stuff and function mappings and whatever you need a laptop for today - just ignore it and leave it at the default settings. The argument goes like "the world has become so much more complicated since they opened that airport an hour from my home, because now I can fly to the entire world in a day and if you can't do much more than basic traveling without getting on a plane, that's obviously too complicated". If you don't want to, just stay in your car, you don't need to use that airport - unless you do want to travel the world in ways you couldn't do before.

    So if you just keep on programming the same three or five CVs you programmed 20 years ago with your throttle, what has changed? Maybe I'm stupid, but I haven't read any explanation here. Unless you now suddenly _want_ to change the function outputs, which you couldn't do on decoders 20 years ago.

    Contrary to modern smart phones, DCC is not going to jump in your face telling you "I need an update" or "Please enter your Google/Apple account ID" or "Please prepare a backup" if you try to use it like your old flip phone (in fact I do just that with my company iPhone - calling and klicking away all the "enter your Apple ID to download this app" notifications).

    Heiko

  2. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Heiko For This Useful Post:


  3. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Columbus,OH, USA
    Posts
    3,277
    Thanks
    82
    Thanked 1,600 Times in 922 Posts
    Mentioned
    48 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I haven’t read all the comments here, but I can say, and this is speaking as one of the JMRI developers, that manufacturers have made things a lot more complicated than they used to be.

    Sound decoders are the big culprit. It can take 30 minutes, or more, to read all the CVs in a current ESU LokSound decoder. It hasn’t always been this way ( I did my first sound install over 10 years ago, and the ESU decoder I used back then is child’s play compared to current ones ). A lot of this has been adding bells and whistles because customers have asked for them, but some of the configuration may very well be exposing information that users should never care about. In many ways, this is just designing a bad user experience. JMRI does what we can to simplify that, but we can’t hide the underlying design.
    For decoder installation and JMRI services, please visit http://www.bentraildigital.com
    For n-scale intermodal information, please visit http://nscaleintermodal.com

  4. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to pbender For This Useful Post:


  5. #83
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Zombietopia, Washington
    Posts
    6,160
    Thanks
    21,245
    Thanked 14,905 Times in 4,200 Posts
    Mentioned
    561 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    @pbender

    Moose, speaking for Mooseself, very glad you and the rest of the JMRI team are doin' yer thing! Wouldn't be able to deal with the complexity of CV's and still be [relatively] sane!
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Moose2013 For This Useful Post:


  7. #84
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    831
    Thanks
    189
    Thanked 1,029 Times in 454 Posts
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    pbender,
    I thank you and the JMRI programmers for their efforts.

    it is a good product and DCC would not be half so easy without JMRI.

    victor

  8. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Olympia, Wa
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    366
    Thanked 340 Times in 165 Posts
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by pbender View Post
    In many ways, this is just designing a bad user experience. JMRI does what we can to simplify that, but we can’t hide the underlying design.
    Looking forward to trying out JMRI. Reading part of this thread a few days ago MCAS came to mind. That is a bad user experience.

  9. #86
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    5,331
    Thanks
    7,956
    Thanked 9,620 Times in 3,090 Posts
    Mentioned
    226 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rook View Post
    Looking forward to trying out JMRI. Reading part of this thread a few days ago MCAS came to mind. That is a bad user experience.
    What is MCAS?
    The Little Rock Line blog


    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin

  10. #87
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    831
    Thanks
    189
    Thanked 1,029 Times in 454 Posts
    Mentioned
    29 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I was thinking the boeing 737 max problem?

  11. #88
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Zombietopia, Washington
    Posts
    6,160
    Thanks
    21,245
    Thanked 14,905 Times in 4,200 Posts
    Mentioned
    561 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen H. View Post
    What is MCAS?
    Allen, Rook was attempting to make a very poor distasteful joke. MCAS is the 737MAX system alledged to have contributed to two deadly crashes.
    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)

    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..."

    "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

  12. #89
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Olympia, Wa
    Posts
    283
    Thanks
    366
    Thanked 340 Times in 165 Posts
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    My apologies Mr Moose.

  13. #90
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    5,331
    Thanks
    7,956
    Thanked 9,620 Times in 3,090 Posts
    Mentioned
    226 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moose2013 View Post
    Allen, Rook was attempting to make a very poor distasteful joke. MCAS is the 737MAX system alledged to have contributed to two deadly crashes.
    Aaaaahhhh! I see, thanks.
    The Little Rock Line blog


    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin

  14. #91
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Galati, Romania,
    Posts
    485
    Thanks
    554
    Thanked 1,637 Times in 359 Posts
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Like most of as agree here, DCC is getting more complicated, but i think is not the fault of decoder, the glitch is belong to manual. Manual became totally generic, in one the geeks try to cover all the problems and the way of solving for all kind of decoder produced. Example: ZIMO. On first pages, they present all 20+ kind of decoders, dimension, connection, etc. After, next pages you have to dig deep into all kind of information, to try to find what is for your decoder or not, if apply or not . So, instead to make manual separated for each kind of decoder, they make a manual looking like a stew. Every body make the stew in his way, so from this point of view, we start to lose time, to became allergic to reading 100 pages of manual and to do after it is not apply to your decoder or locomotive. For me is simple to solve. Live the decoder like is it, and put the geek squad to make manuals for each decoder. American locomotives do not use Swiss mode. European loco do not have gyralite or mars light. Is just a kind of information to be solved. Example:

    3.22 Special Effects for Function Outputs
    (US and other lighting effects, smoke generators, uncouplers etc.)
    Special effects can be assigned to a total of 10 function outputs with
    CV’s #125, #126, #127 … #132, #159, #160
    for F0fr., F0rear. FO1 ...... FO6 , FO7 , FO8
    The values for these special effect CV’s contain the
    actual 6-Bit special effects code and the 2-Bit directions code
    Bits 1,0 = 00: bidirectional (active in both directions) = 01: active in forward direction only (+ 1) = 10: active in reverse direction only (+ 2)
    Bits 7 ... 2 = 000000xx No effect, except for direction = (0), 1, 2 (bidirectional, forward, reverse) = 000001xx Mars light + direction = 4, 5, 6 (bidirectional, forward, reverse) = 000010xx Random flicker + direction = 8, 9, 10 (ditto, ditto, ditto) = 000011xx Flashing headlight + direction = 12, 13, 14 … = 000100xx Single pulse strobe + direction = 16, 17, 18 = 000101xx Double pulse strobe + direction = 20, 21, 22 = 000110xx Rotary beacon + direction = 24, 25, 26 = 000111xx Gyralite + direction = 28, 29, 30 = 001000xx Ditch light type 1, right + direction = 32, 33, 34 = 001001xx Ditch light type 1, left + direction = 36, 37, 38 = 001010xx Ditch light type 2, right + direction = 40, 41, 42 = 001011xx Ditch light type 2, left. + direction = 44, 45, 46
    = 001100xx Uncoupler as defined in CV #115 = 48, 49, 50 automatic disengagement in CV #116
    = 001101xx “Soft start” = slow dimming up of function output = 52, 53, 54
    = 001110xx Automatic stoplights for trams, stoplight-off delay, see CV #63. = 56, 57, 58
    = 001111xx Function output turns itself off at speed >0 = 60, 61, 62 (i.e. turns off cab light when driving).
    NOT for MX621 = 010000xx Function output turns itself off after 5 minutes = 64, 65, 66 (i.e. to protect smoke generators form overheating).
    -“- = 010001xx As above, but after 10 minutes = 68, 69, 70
    -“- = 010010xx Speed or load dependent smoke generation = 72, 73, 75
    for steam engines as per CV’s #137 – #139 (i.e. pre-heating at
    stand still, heavy smoke at high speed or high load). Smoke
    turns off as per CV #353; function key has to be pressed to
    reactivate smoke.
    -“- = 010100xx Driving state-dependent smoke generation for diesel engines = 80, 81, 82 as per CV’s #137 – #139 (i.e. pre-heating at stand still, heavy smoke during motor start-up sound and acceleration). Synchronized control of fan connected to the fan output. Smoke turns off as per CV #353; function key must be pressed to reactivate smoke.
    -“- = 100010xx Slow fade in/out of a function output; useful for various = 88, 89, 90 lighting effects or motorized equipment (i.e. fan, snow blower). (SW version Dimming time is set with CV’s #190 and #19 33.10 and higher)
    -“- = 010111xx effect of flourescent lamp (SW-Version 36.7 and higher) = 92, 93, 94
    -“- = 011000xx sparks with hevy braking (SW-Version 37.0 and higher) = 96, 97, 98

    Still looking for a old manual where the sentence start in English Translated by Google and finished in German language.
    I LIKE TO WORK WITH BIG SHIP ENGINES BUT I SPEND MY FREE TIME AROUND N SCALE TRAIN MODELS.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 8
    Last Post: 20th Jun 2017, 12:27 AM
  2. Speed steps and speed tables, very complicated.
    By trainstrainstrains in forum DCC
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 1st Oct 2016, 08:16 PM
  3. Complicated wye wiring, need advice
    By trainboyh16-44 in forum DCC
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 12th Oct 2011, 04:44 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •