Results 1 to 12 of 12

Thread: A better Dull Cote?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fort Smith, Arkansas
    Posts
    1,487
    Thanks
    1,292
    Thanked 2,116 Times in 683 Posts
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default A better Dull Cote?

    I use Testors Dull Cote a lot but it tends to leave a whitish build up with multiple layers. Perhaps I get it too thick but is there a better dull coat out there that doesn't get the white build up?
    Daniel Dawson

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    5,547
    Thanks
    8,525
    Thanked 10,642 Times in 3,272 Posts
    Mentioned
    248 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Daniel,
    How are you applying the Dull Coat?
    By Rattle can or Airbrush?

    If by Rattle can, are shaking it up enough or warming the can in warm water before spraying it?
    How heavy are you spraying it on?

    In the past when I spray Dull Coat on something I've weathered with an airbrush, I will usually cut it 50% with thinner.

    I also like to use Model Masters Lusterless Flat for a final coat, again thinned.
    The Little Rock Line blog


    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin

  3. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Allen H. For This Useful Post:


  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fort Smith, Arkansas
    Posts
    1,487
    Thanks
    1,292
    Thanked 2,116 Times in 683 Posts
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen H. View Post
    By Rattle can or Airbrush?
    Airbrush. I spray until I kill the shine. Or until decals look blended. So sometimes it takes a few coats. And in between oil washes. So I'm sure thickness of coat plays into it, but I guess in my mind a clear coat should be clear no matter how thick you spray it. But I guess Testors Dull isn't really a true clear coat is it? It even looks white in the bottle. So I guess that is where we get to the heart of the matter. I need a Dull Coat that is actually clear. If it exists? But your tip on diluting might be promising. You just cut it with good ol lacquer thinner? Is the Model Masters Lusterless Flat an acrylic or also a lacquer? Thanks.
    Daniel Dawson

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Florida, USA
    Posts
    1,100
    Thanks
    224
    Thanked 1,611 Times in 501 Posts
    Mentioned
    53 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile One View Post
    Airbrush. I spray until I kill the shine. Or until decals look blended. So sometimes it takes a few coats. And in between oil washes. So I'm sure thickness of coat plays into it, but I guess in my mind a clear coat should be clear no matter how thick you spray it. But I guess Testors Dull isn't really a true clear coat is it? It even looks white in the bottle. So I guess that is where we get to the heart of the matter. I need a Dull Coat that is actually clear. If it exists? But your tip on diluting might be promising. You just cut it with good ol lacquer thinner? Is the Model Masters Lusterless Flat an acrylic or also a lacquer? Thanks.

    Are you gloss coating before decals? The dull should be the sealant and finishing touch, if you're relying on it to blend decals you're probably going to need to use too much
    :bottle::bottle::gdl::mp15:

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to Intermodalman For This Useful Post:


  7. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Ashland Oregon
    Posts
    4,799
    Blog Entries
    3
    Thanks
    4,241
    Thanked 4,068 Times in 1,932 Posts
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I was told at one time that the ingredient that make the coating dull is actually talcum powder. Seems strange. maybe some more research is in order. If so, maybe you just need to shake it up a bit longer.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Michael Whiteman For This Useful Post:


  9. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    5,547
    Thanks
    8,525
    Thanked 10,642 Times in 3,272 Posts
    Mentioned
    248 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile One View Post
    Airbrush. I spray until I kill the shine. Or until decals look blended. So sometimes it takes a few coats. And in between oil washes. So I'm sure thickness of coat plays into it,
    That's what I do as well. Which is another reason I thin my dull coat. When I'm weathering I just want to seal each layer enough just so the next layer will not contaminate the previous layer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile One View Post
    but I guess in my mind a clear coat should be clear no matter how thick you spray it.
    But I guess Testors Dull isn't really a true clear coat is it? It even looks white in the bottle.
    It looks white or creamy because it's a clear binder with added pigments to give it a flat finish. I was told it's basically a clear paint. A gloss finish is the same material without the added pigments so it's clear.
    I know if you spray it on so it looks real wet and shiny, it'll be too thick and you will wind up with a satin finish. It's best to mist it on in several passes, not so thin that it cures before it hits the surface but just enough to see that it looks wet. If it goes on too thin you will get a rough textured finish which is not what you want. When it goes on wet, the material will, for lack of better words, "melt" together and flow out before it dries.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile One View Post
    So I guess that is where we get to the heart of the matter. I need a Dull Coat that is actually clear. If it exists? But your tip on diluting might be promising. You just cut it with good ol lacquer thinner?
    Yes. Gloss and Dull are lacquer based, so just use lacquer thinner.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile One View Post
    Is the Model Masters Lusterless Flat an acrylic or also a lacquer? Thanks.
    Lusterless Flat is a lacquer based material. Others have said it was an enamel, it's not.
    When I used the Lusterless Flat I thinned it with lacquer thinner with no issues.
    I've also used Model Masters Satin and Flat, it's also a lacquer based material.

    Another material that I've started to use recently with good results is Tru Color Flat #017.
    It's an Acetone based material (Finger Nail Polish Remover). I thin it just like I do with the Dull Coat when I spray it.
    I still use Lacquer thinner to clean my airbrush when finished, but use Acetone to thin or cut it.


    Also.....I've never understood why one needs to use a gloss finish before applying decals?
    When I first started decaling and painting, a guy showed me how he did it and it's worked for me ever since.
    He used both Scale Coat which is glossy but also used Floquil which was a flat paint.

    When he used Floquil he never shot gloss over it before decaling. I asked him if he ever had issues with the decals "Silvering" (Air that is trapped under the decal, thus giving it a silver look) He said no because he used Solvaset (you can also use Micro Sol) first. He would wet the area where the decal would go, then placed the decal over it and gently rubbed it down to force the air out. Once it was set, he would apply the solvent several times so it actually melted the decal into the paint. There are times you need to use a sharp knife or pin to prick the decal to release any air, sometimes he would slice it with a sharp knife depending what the surface was like.
    He told me that he never had good luck with decals over a gloss finish because he could never get rid of the decal edge, no matter how thin the decal was or how many times he applied the Solvaset.

    I've seen bad decal jobs where guys would spray flat paint and then apply the decal.
    Either they never used enough Solvaset or Micro Sol to really soften and melt the decals or they didn't use it period. Then the decals REALLY stands out and looks like crap!

    This isn't the greatest image, but this was done with Floquil and the decals were Micro Scale placed right over Floquil paints using Solvaset first, notice the cab numbers, and see if you can see the decal edge?



    Here's the last unit that I did, again, look for the decal edge. I had to apply Solvaset several times to get the decal to snuggle down over the details in the door under the black on the "R" and also had to prick the decal over those finer details.
    The Little Rock Line blog


    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin

  10. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to Allen H. For This Useful Post:


  11. #7
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    414
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    456
    Thanked 889 Times in 232 Posts
    Mentioned
    43 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Dull Coat has a yellow tint after a few years which is no big deal if not over white.
    Just let the bottle set a while and you will see the yellow material settle to the bottom of the jar.
    I use Krylon Matt pray myself now if I need a flat finish.

    rich
    www.rslaserkits.com

  12. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    southeast michigan
    Posts
    1,507
    Thanks
    1,024
    Thanked 2,333 Times in 802 Posts
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Never tried it on models but there is a product called fixative (aka fixatif) that is used to "fix" art, for example to spray over charcoal drawings to keep them from smearing. It has a matte finish, might be worth experimenting.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NtheBasement For This Useful Post:


  14. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fort Smith, Arkansas
    Posts
    1,487
    Thanks
    1,292
    Thanked 2,116 Times in 683 Posts
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen H. View Post
    If it goes on too thin you will get a rough textured finish which is not what you want.
    I actually wonder if this might be part of what I am doing wrong. Does the lacquer thinning help it go on "wetter"? Also, I have been using a .5 tip but I also have a .35 tip. Do you have a preference? Nice locos BTW!
    Daniel Dawson

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Mobile One For This Useful Post:


  16. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Fort Smith, Arkansas
    Posts
    1,487
    Thanks
    1,292
    Thanked 2,116 Times in 683 Posts
    Mentioned
    27 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen H. View Post
    when I spray Dull Coat on something I've weathered with an airbrush, I will usually cut it 50% with thinner.
    So i just had a chance to try this: I cut some gloss by 50% and turned the pressure down quite a bit. This let me spray with better control and I was able to restore the white areas back to looking normal. Some of it was a little too glossy, but mostly it brought back the normal color I wanted. Then I did the thinned Dull Cote and it really seemed to help. It can go on much thinner with the lighter fluid and lower pressure. It killed the gloss but didn't kill my color. Thanks, man! I'm still a beginner with an airbrush, really. I would have been scared to just thin the Testors with plain old lacquer thinner but if course it makes sense and it really seems to help. I'll probably go ahead and pre-thin my Testors lacquers. I never brush coat with them anyway.
    Daniel Dawson

  17. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Mobile One For This Useful Post:


  18. #11
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    5,547
    Thanks
    8,525
    Thanked 10,642 Times in 3,272 Posts
    Mentioned
    248 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile One View Post
    I actually wonder if this might be part of what I am doing wrong. Does the lacquer thinning help it go on "wetter"? Also, I have been using a .5 tip but I also have a .35 tip. Do you have a preference? Nice locos BTW!
    Actually by thinning the dull coat with lacquer thinner is should actually make it dry a bit faster as the thinner will evaporate faster.
    Basically the way I see it the thinner will allow it to go on much thinner so it will flow better.

    The thicker the material is the harder it is to spray a nice even coat.
    You thin the dull coat for the same reason you thin white glue when you go to glue ballast down.
    If you didn't it would ball up on top of the ballast before it would soak in.

    Image trying to blow full strength Elmer's white glue from a straw. Now image blowing water out of a straw.
    By thinning the Elmer's glue with water you can blow it out easier.

    Not sure how to compare your tip sizes to what I use.
    I have a large, medium and fine tips for my Badger airbrush.
    I use to use a fine tip, but I switched over to a medium tip and adjust the tip so I don't get as much material coming out.

    As a side note, normally I use around 30-35lbs of pressure, but I know a buddy who shoots his air closer to 50lbs.
    He told me it will atomize the material much better. It's kind of personal choice and also depends on the material that you're using.
    You just need to play around with settings until you get good results that your happy with.
    The Little Rock Line blog


    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Allen H. For This Useful Post:


  20. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    5,547
    Thanks
    8,525
    Thanked 10,642 Times in 3,272 Posts
    Mentioned
    248 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mobile One View Post
    So i just had a chance to try this: I cut some gloss by 50% and turned the pressure down quite a bit. This let me spray with better control and I was able to restore the white areas back to looking normal. Some of it was a little too glossy, but mostly it brought back the normal color I wanted. Then I did the thinned Dull Cote and it really seemed to help. It can go on much thinner with the lighter fluid and lower pressure. It killed the gloss but didn't kill my color. Thanks, man! I'm still a beginner with an airbrush, really. I would have been scared to just thin the Testors with plain old lacquer thinner but if course it makes sense and it really seems to help. I'll probably go ahead and pre-thin my Testors lacquers. I never brush coat with them anyway.
    You just need to paly around things until you get the results you're looking for or feel comfortable with.
    Trust me, I've ruined enough stuff until I found what works for me.
    Like they always say: You'll learn from your mistakes.

    What works for me and my equipment, may not work for you and your equipment.
    The Little Rock Line blog


    “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin

  21. The Following User Says Thank You to Allen H. For This Useful Post:


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •