Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 36 of 36

Thread: track issue?

  1. #21
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Nebraska
    Posts
    6,325
    Thanks
    10,514
    Thanked 13,843 Times in 3,901 Posts
    Mentioned
    304 Post(s)
    Tagged
    2 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by inkaneer View Post
    Think about it. Even with just three layers any expansion would require breaking two separate glue bonds in the plywood. I doubt that would happen.
    No one said anything about breaking the glue bonds.
    If you had a clue about which you speak of, the middle ply in 1/4" plywood is usually thicker than what you would find in thicker plywood.
    How many times have you seen a pile of 1/4" plywood where a lot of the sheets are not laying flat? Some even have waves throughout the sheet. You know..."Warping"
    Now go look at 1/2" or 3/4" and tell me how wavey or "Warped" they are?
    Because the middle ply on 1/4" is thicker (1/8") than ply's in thicker plywood, therefor it moves more.
    The Little Rock Line blog


    ďNever argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." George Carlin

    Support the natural selection process, remove the warning labels....

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to Allen H. For This Useful Post:


  3. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Austin, MN USA
    Posts
    715
    Thanks
    700
    Thanked 654 Times in 338 Posts
    Mentioned
    10 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    OK, we can speculate to infinity what caused it. To attempt to remedy it, I would remove all the nails, as you said, and if there is a large, gradual, bow in the track, cut out enough to make it straight again and fasten it again and see what happens.

    Doug
    Atlas First Generation Motive Power and Treble-O-Lectric. Click on the link:
    www.irwinsjournal.com/a1g/a1glocos/

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Doug Gosha For This Useful Post:


  5. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Posts
    220
    Thanks
    3,160
    Thanked 1,138 Times in 192 Posts
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I was worried about this warping issue myself before I began my layout. It was especially important since lím doing everything in code 40. I remember reading at the time that warpage was all due to the wood, and that the solution was to lay track on foam since it wasnít subject to warping due to temperature, the rail wasnít going to expand/contact that that much either, at least not as compared to wood.

    My garage doesnít have that large a range of temperatures, maybe 40 to 70, itís pretty cool even on hot days. But a long time ago I had a layout that I had begun and left a few years, all Peco code 80 and the track had been all warped when I checked on it again a few years later and all had to be thrown out, so it can happen here too. That was all using a couple layers of card-stock as roadbed, so probably similar to being directly on the plywood. I started laying my current track in summer 2020. So far itís all in gauge on the foam. That may not be practical for you at this point, but something to think about in the future.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Frank17913 For This Useful Post:


  7. #24
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    1,166
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 827 Times in 408 Posts
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I can see where the foam might be more stable......but I HATE foam roadbed! The only place I will use it is on my NTRAK modules, and then only for a few inches on each end. The club finds that having the squishy foam next to the joints helps prevent any humps caused by adjoining modules not being perfectly aligned. The foam roadbed I tried was almost impossible to form into curves without buckling and it's also very difficult to put any nails into it since even putting the nail in a tiny bit too far bends the ties down, which then pulls the rails in and takes the track out of gauge ........not an issue if you glue. I also had some "rot" issues where the foam started to come apart.........took several years, but it was enough to scare me off for good. I'm gonna try pulling all the nails when I get time and then renail, and possibly add more nails (4 or 5 per section vs 3). Our club volunteered to do trains for the Santa display at the mall (the only Santa in town) and that starts tomorrow. We jumped ship for this and are running 2 ovals, one O scale and one G scale. It's 5 days a week, wednesday thru sunday........just 4 to 7 weekdays, but 12 to 7 on the weekends. So I may get nothing done till after Christmas, but might try to pull the nails and let the track "relax" for a few weeks.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MRLdave For This Useful Post:


  9. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2021
    Location
    Cowichan Bay, Vancouver Island, B.C., Canada
    Posts
    443
    Thanks
    697
    Thanked 1,045 Times in 311 Posts
    Mentioned
    28 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    I've been following this since it started. Am still surprised that no one has invoked @moose yet and asked for pictures.

    While I built my layout 30+ years ago with Atlas sectional track (the heavier Code 80 stuff, right?) I used the Atlas NINE book instructions: 3/4" plywood "table," cork nailed down, tracks nailed down, no glue or silicone. The layout has "suffered" storage and three moves, two locally in California and one move by heavy-handed movers two years ago to Canada. Except for two or three places where rails buckled, all I had to do was clean the track and NoOx it and things run just fine.

    One layout in the NINE book included flex track, no special treatment for those sections for securing it any differently than sectional track were ever mentioned.

    Perhaps it was just my beginners luck, but those basic instructions at that time (1987) never included glue and warned against using thin plywood. Foam hadn't been "invented" yet.

    Sometimes it pays to go with "old school" instructions for building stuff. Perhaps it's just the OP's use of the Code 55 track but I'm not so sure.

    Would still like to see a photo or two.
    Monopoly & Octopus (modified & expanded) (starts on page 1, Post #29)
    https://www.nscale.net/forums/showthread.php?15459-Monopoly-and-Octopus-RR-Layout/


  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Stu For This Useful Post:


  11. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Zombietopia, Washington
    Posts
    7,595
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    26,526
    Thanked 20,449 Times in 5,331 Posts
    Mentioned
    683 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu View Post
    Am still surprised that no one has invoked @moose yet and asked for pictures.
    Yeah, where are those photos? How can the nice folks here on this here forum provide the best possible assistance, if there be no photos?

    Moose stampedes are but a moment's notice away...
    = > ų

    ~ Moose (Co-founder of the Mt. Tahoma & Pacific Railroad, located some where in the Pacific Northwest)


    "Beware the Train of Thought that Carries no Freight..." "Reading is for morons who can't understand pictures..."

    Click Here to See Moose's Layout Thread

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Moose2013 For This Useful Post:


  13. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Posts
    1,677
    Thanks
    8,355
    Thanked 2,399 Times in 1,036 Posts
    Mentioned
    108 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MRLdave View Post
    I can see where the foam might be more stable......but I HATE foam roadbed!
    I think the foam that Frank is talking about is is not foam roadbed but foam sheet to replace the plywood sheet where the track is fastened to.

  14. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    1,166
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 827 Times in 408 Posts
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    You may be right about the foam.......hadn't thought of that. Sorry about no pictures, but this forum doesn't like me as far as attachments..........I've tried pics before, and I tried to post the track plan and none of it has worked. If you want that stuff you have to go to the "other" forum.......I have no problem posting there. Not sure why it never works here. And now there won't be any pics because I spent the afternoon pulling all the track nails and everything is straight again. I debated on the 1/4 inch board, but as mentioned, I approached the layout like a giant NTRAK layout, and 1/4 inch is what we build all our modules with. Part of that is for weight, which is also a factor here........ everything has to be built in the garage and carried up a narrow staircase to the train room. And of course cost reared it's ugly head. 10 sheets of 1/4 is a whole lot cheaper than 10 sheets of 3/4. If this was a layout from the 9 book and we were talking 1 sheet I might have had second thoughts about the 1/4. AND.........my plan is to cookie cutter all the grades.........my last layout was 1/2 inch ply and it didn't flex as much as I would have liked. As always, there are trade-offs.

  15. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MRLdave For This Useful Post:


  16. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    southeast michigan
    Posts
    1,971
    Thanks
    1,604
    Thanked 3,694 Times in 1,145 Posts
    Mentioned
    98 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Last time I looked it up, nickel steel, plywood and OSB had similar heat expansion coefficients while plywood's and OSB's moisture expansion was orders of magnitude greater. When roofing the sheets have to be gapped 1/8" to allow for it.

    Re attaching photos, check the file size. If > 1 MB then make it less. Easiest way on windows is edit the file, MS Paint comes up, resize. For example if you resize 50% the file size is quartered; I usually resize to 1600 pixels long, .7 MB.
    Moving coal the old way: https://youtu.be/RWJVt4r_pgc
    Moving coal the new way: https://youtu.be/QzmBQ4As_mc

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to NtheBasement For This Useful Post:


  18. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2019
    Location
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Posts
    220
    Thanks
    3,160
    Thanked 1,138 Times in 192 Posts
    Mentioned
    11 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kingmeow View Post
    I think the foam that Frank is talking about is is not foam roadbed but foam sheet to replace the plywood sheet where the track is fastened to.
    Thanks @kingmeow, this is correct. I have 1/2 inch plywood with an inch of blue foam over the plywood, and homasote roadbed on top of the foam. The track is hand laid, so no spikes or nails, itís just latex caulk between track and roadbed. The wood can, in theory, expand and contract all it wants, but that wonít be transferred up the track itself, because the foam is a buffer that will be largely unaffected by the expansion/contraction. Itís working so far a couple of years-plus in, fingers crossed. I ran the gauge through some of the first sections I laid yesterday, and everything checked out.

  19. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Frank17913 For This Useful Post:


  20. #31
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    1,166
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 827 Times in 408 Posts
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Thanks Nthbasement...........I've tried that, and it works to post pics elsewhere, but not here.........I'm probably doing something wrong, but I've pretty much given up at this point. If I have something I REALLY want to post, I just do it elsewhere. I'll keep everyone posted on how the repair is working on the track.

  21. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Leavenworth Ks
    Posts
    1,230
    Thanks
    5,846
    Thanked 3,672 Times in 861 Posts
    Mentioned
    62 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    The problem @MRLdave is having is why I use 1/2" Micore over 1/2" cabinet grade plywood. Micore is fiberglass based and will not expand or contract with temperature or humidity changes.
    I do turn the heat up to about 78 degrees in the basement when I'm laying track so the rails should be at the high end of expansion. Normal temp in the basement ranges from 65 in the winter to 70 in the summer.
    Rodney

    Here is my build of my n-scale railroad
    https://www.nscale.net/forums/showthr...-50-8-quot-%29

  22. The Following User Says Thank You to Rodsup9000 For This Useful Post:


  23. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    108
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 87 Times in 50 Posts
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MRLdave View Post
    On the gaps......I'm not exactly sure about a measurement, but it is a noticeable.....more than I would have liked from a visual standpoint. I put in a gap every 2 pieces of flex, so each piece could expand in one direction. After you brought it up, I checked, and on the majority of pieces where the track wiggled, the gaps are still there.....so it SHOULDN'T have flexed since it still had room to expand. ??????????????
    Not necessarily. You stated. "I put in a gap every 2 pieces of flex, so each piece could expand in one direction. After you brought it up, I checked, and on the majority of pieces where the track wiggled, the gaps are still there.....so it SHOULDN'T have flexed since it still had room to expand. ??????????????"

    Track will not always expand where you would like it to expand. Prototype RR's use welded rail and design for rail expansion but sometimes the rail does not co-operate and "sunkinks" occur. See photo below.



    I would recommend gapping every piece of flex and every piece of flex having its own feeder. I'm not sure how long Atlas C55 is. I know their C80 is about 30 inches long Their C55 may be 30 or 36 inches. That is 5-6 feet of track. So what happens if the rail does not expand toward the gaps you provided but expands towards where the track is soldered together or butted up against one another and cannot move? You get a kink.

  24. #34
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    108
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 87 Times in 50 Posts
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Allen H. View Post
    No one said anything about breaking the glue bonds.
    If you had a clue about which you speak of, the middle ply in 1/4" plywood is usually thicker than what you would find in thicker plywood.
    How many times have you seen a pile of 1/4" plywood where a lot of the sheets are not laying flat? Some even have waves throughout the sheet. You know..."Warping"
    Now go look at 1/2" or 3/4" and tell me how wavey or "Warped" they are?
    Because the middle ply on 1/4" is thicker (1/8") than ply's in thicker plywood, therefor it moves more.
    The OP questioned whether the track was "warping" not the plywood. What he described was thermal expansion of the rail not warping.

  25. #35
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Bozeman,MT
    Posts
    1,166
    Blog Entries
    1
    Thanks
    6
    Thanked 827 Times in 408 Posts
    Mentioned
    31 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Didn't mention it, but at this point, nothing is soldered. After everything is running....and problems like this work themselves out....... I'll go back and solder.

  26. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    108
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 87 Times in 50 Posts
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MRLdave View Post
    Didn't mention it, but at this point, nothing is soldered. After everything is running....and problems like this work themselves out....... I'll go back and solder.
    Solder won't help nor solve the problem. The track will lengthen due to thermal expansion regardless. You have to allow for it. My advice is to gap every piece of flex track by at least .015 inches. It would probably be better to gap .02 inches because of those heating ducts under the layout. Even though the heated air is directed downward, warm air will always rise.

Similar Threads

  1. Program Track issue
    By MRLdave in forum DCC
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 20th Dec 2015, 07:08 PM
  2. Very odd track electrical issue
    By You Know Who in forum Trackage
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 17th Jul 2015, 06:46 AM
  3. Track cleaning issue may help some
    By cpspok in forum Trackage
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 30th Mar 2015, 08:50 AM
  4. NEW TRACK PLANNING VIDEO: Double track vs. single track
    By DJSTRAINS in forum Layouts, Design, & Planning.
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 19th Dec 2014, 07:11 PM
  5. Replies: 13
    Last Post: 3rd Nov 2011, 04:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •