Atlas Code 55 #10 Turnout Over-Center Spring

[Sumner]

Does the thinner super glue have an 'instant' bond or is there some working time to maneuver the ties in place?

I just added this to my website ( HERE for more info ). See if it helps...



I haven't been real happy using Pliobond so started using CA glue (try both and see what you like best). I put the ties in a fixture and work with one section of the turnout at a time. I'll be careful to put just a drop where the tie meets the rail on one end of the tie. Too much and it can run down into the fixture. I'll do that quickly for all the ties in that section. Then I'll dip the wooden food pic in the accelerator and run it along the side of the rail. It will flow down into the CA and set it.

I'll turn the turnout/tie fixture around (have it on a piece of paper to make that easier) and then repeat with the other end of the ties. Next I'll use the X-acto knife to pry the turnout and ties out of the fixture and move onto the next section. This goes quickly but at times the medium CA was not setting up quick enough and a tie would come loose. I then put one of the long applicators (need them to limit the flow) onto the Duro Super Glue shown above. It sets up faster. Using it and the accelerator I could move to the next section about as fast as I could put the CA and accelerator on.

I have some of the faster Starbond ordered and will try it and see how fast it sets up. With the fixtures or using tape to hold the ties you don't need to have a lot of working time. One actually wants the CA to grab fast. Using it in one of the small bottles with the applicator tip on it will be better than using the tubes that don't hold much and are harder to control the application of the CA.

One might try using both the Pliobond and the CA and see which works best for them. If you don't have a printer and can't print the tie fixtures then I'd cut thin strips of double sided tape and use it on a template. You want thin strips so that the tape isn't pulling hard on the ties when you separated the turnout from the tape and template. I've also used the blue painter's tape …



…. with success ( more info HERE).

If a tie comes loose it is usually at one end do easy to position and re-glue on the other end. If it comes off still not much of a problem to replace a couple ties as you have the other ones there.

Sumner

[amstilost]

Thanks Sumner,
I will try the 3D printed straight turnout jigs also. I only have Gel CA so I will look for Dura Fast CA, some applicators and fast accelerator. It's amazing how fast the supply inventory gets.

[amstilost]

I then put one of the long applicators (need them to limit the flow) onto the Duro Super Glue shown above. It sets up faster. Using it and the accelerator I could move to the next section about as fast as I could put the CA and accelerator on.

So just to clarify because after re-reading the Duro Super Glue sentence I understand it as the Duro Super Glue was to test the fast setting glue and you were ordering this in the bottle with applicators??
STARBOND EM-02 Super Fast Thin, Premium Instant CA (Cyanoacrylate Adhesive) Super Glue Plus Extra Cap and Microtips, 2 oz.

[Sumner]

I understand it as the Duro Super Glue was to test the fast setting glue and you were ordering this

Yes the Duro was in the small tubes and I wanted something I can put in bottles. I ordered ( THIS ) but haven't used it yet. We have been out of town and it is at the Post Office and I'll pick it up today and try it in a day or two and report back after trying it. I have the same brand's slower CA and like it so thought I'd try the faster one since I like how the Duro set up for me. You might like the slower.

For the glue I use ( THESE ) applicators on the bottles. They fit some larger squeeze bottles I have but seem to be working on the smaller ones below. You have to cut them where they neck down and then they will slide onto the metal tip and stay there. I like the smaller bottles as there isn't as much air in the bottle at the same time the flux or CA is in there.

For soldering flux I like ( THESE ) small bottles I bought. For the flux I use the small metal tip and pretty much smash it shut so that when soldering I can control a small drop at a time if I want that for the solder joint on wiring or on turnouts. I've used a number of different fluxes for turnouts and wiring and my favorite now is Superior No. 30 Supersafe gel. It is still liquid but doesn't run as far when applied as most other liquid ones do and like it better than the pure pastes that take longer to apply. I like that on the turnouts it runs far enough for the PCB tie/rail soldering joint and not further. Non acid and non resin so cleans up much easier and works great. I also have their Superior No. 30 Supersafe Soldering Liquid and use it if I want or don't care if it flows further. You can buy them as a 2 pack to try out and they go a long ways. I read where others were using them for turnout construction and glad I gave them a try. They are harder to find. I ordered direct (see links) and they came quickly.

Sumner

[amstilost]

I ordered ( THIS ) but haven't used it yet.

Well, mine arrived in the mail and just tried it. Maybe I need more experience with super glue but this was a disaster for me the first time. Fingers almost stuck together, ties stuck to fingers, points stuck to rails, rails stuck to fingers with very, very little glue used. I had the smallest tip on the bottle but the glue was so thin as soon as it touched the rail it took off in both directions. As soon as a any got on the wood ties in the jig it soaked across it to where the points would have been, then the ties were stuck to the jig. Then, when able to put even a smaller dab on the rail it didn't hold the tie. I don't know what I'm missing with this but very frustrated right now. Time for a break.

[Sumner]

I was hoping you waited. I finally got my fast two days ago and tried it yesterday. It is faster thinner than the Duro was so I'm having mixed feeling about it. I was putting some ties on 3 turnouts. I won't be putting all the ties on as these won't be seen. Mainly want the ties to hold the turnout higher so the throwbar isn't dragging and so the turnout is the same height as the adjoining track.

Yes you don't want it on your fingers. I finally had the best luck turning the turnout upside down. Putting a drop on the turnout or more depending on how many ties I was putting down. Lay the ties down, put a drop of the accelerator on. It will run into the CA. I'd put one of my small weights on and letting it set for 30 seconds or so.

I did about half with the 'medium' and the rest with the fast. I might go forward with the medium mainly (easier to control) but will try the fast some more and work on technique. One thing I won't do anymore is attach the ties by the points regardless of what glue I use. I find it easier to slide them under with the turnout in place and glue them to the layout surface and not the rail.

Are you using accelerator (I move it to a smaller bottle). I'm using a metal tip in a small bottle with it and have it pretty much smashed flat to really restrict it but it is really thin.

I'd keep experimenting until you find an approach that works with you. I still prefer this over the pliobond and can put ties on quicker using the CA. Maybe give the medium a try it is more forgiving. I have the fast, medium and thick and use them for different projects so like having all three.

Sumner

[amstilost]

Are you using accelerator

No, I didn't get any figuring the 'Fast' would be quick enough not to need it. It's quick for sure. I did turn the turnout upside-down but that was when I had used such a little bit that it didn't hold.

One thing I won't do anymore is attach the ties by the points regardless of what glue I use. I find it easier to slide them under with the turnout in place and glue them to the layout surface and not the rail.

That idea makes the most sense. I agree 100%.

I still prefer this over the pliobond and can put ties on quicker using the CA.

The pliobond has held very well but that was on the #10 turnouts using Fast Track Quick Sticks that have the extra 'runner' of wood attached to the ties that the rail glues to. Works great but the glue smells, takes more time and more expense.

[African Pirate]

Hi

I don’t know if this would work for what you are doing but take a look at Bob Smith Industries IC-GEL. It doesn’t run like regular CA.

https://bsi-inc.com/hobby/ic_gel.html

[Sumner]

take a look at Bob Smith Industries IC-GEL. It doesn’t run like regular CA.

Thanks, it looks like it is similar to the 'thick' I have. The 'medium' also doesn't run anywhere like the 'fast'. The problem with the thick and the medium to some extent is that they are slow to cure even with the accelerator. When I'm putting the ties on I'm working a section at a time between the PCB ties so want to glue and move on quickly without the ties falling off while the glue sets up. For the turnouts that aren't seen I only put on maybe 20% of the ties. For the ones that are seen I might go back and ....



... try the tape method I've use (above) and maybe use the medium with no accelerator and put the CA on the rail (minus by the points). Then I could lay the turnout on all the ties at once. Put a weight on it and let is sit for a good bond before pulling the tape. Above I'm using the blue painter's tape as it holds the ties in place and separates from the ties easier than the more sticky double sided tape. I use the double sided to build a turnout on a template but it tends to pull the ties back off the rail unless there is a really strong glue joint, which there isn't always. Since the blue is not double sided I show how I attach it here...

http://1fatgmc.com/RailRoad/Trackwork/page-6.html

On another note I use enough CA now for the 3D printed projects and the large number of turnouts that I don't like the CA in the tubes. I find it harder to apply and the tubes waste a lot. I like to buy the larger bottles and move it to....



... smaller bottles with the long applicator tips that make it easier to control.

Sumner